FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board
Numismatic and History Discussion Forums => History and Archeology => Topic started by: Maffeo on January 18, 2011, 03:27:47 pm
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/17/caligula-tomb-found-police-statue
He was one lusty lad that Caligula.
I also read somewhere that the number of the Beast in Revelation is not after all 666, with its numerical equivalence to Nero Caesar in Greek. Apparently older manuscripts have 616 which is numerically equivalent to Caligula Caesar in Greek. Number of the Beast or not, I find them both fascinating personalities, though I wouldn't want my daughter (if I had one) to date either one of them.
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That's cool! I'll be watching for more updates! Thanks
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Thanks for sharing Maffeo.
I hope they release a photo of the statue soon. I am aware that contemporary representations of Caligula are considered quite rare, so to find a previously unknown statue of "Little Boots" is very exciting.
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Looking forward to seeing photos if possible, very cool find.
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Maybe not:
http://www.aolnews.com/2011/01/18/controversy-over-alleged-discovery-of-caligulas-lost-tomb/
but it's still a great find.
mz
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/17/caligula-tomb-found-police-statue
He was one lusty lad that Caligula.
I also read somewhere that the number of the Beast in Revelation is not after all 666, with its numerical equivalence to Nero Caesar in Greek. Apparently older manuscripts have 616 which is numerically equivalent to Caligula Caesar in Greek. Number of the Beast or not, I find them both fascinating personalities, though I wouldn't want my daughter (if I had one) to date either one of them.
There are endless speculations about this one. Some manuscripts do have 616, but the weight of the evidence is for 666. Nero would fit quite well; one of its heads had suffered a death-blow, but its mortal wound had been healed (Revelation 13:3). Nero was a popular emperor, despite his later reputation, and there were persistent stories around the eastern Mediterranean, where the book was of course written, to the effect that he'd survived his apparent demise and escaped. He was the emperor who provoked the Jews into war; the author of Revelation was a Jew who may have had bad memories of him because of that. It's as good as we're ever going to get on the question.
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Classical author Mary Beard weighs in:
http://timesonline.typepad.com/dons_life/2011/01/this-isnt-caligulas-tomb.html
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That sounds like sense. A couple of years ago, someone found monumental masonry of early but undetermined date, from a building of unknown use, in Jerusalem, and promptly announced the discovery of 'King David's palace', as though they'd found a blue plaque saying 'King David lived here'. This sounds similar.
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Well, nothing further has been said about Caligula's alleged tomb, so I suspect it will turn out to be just wishful thinking after all.
As for the alleged David's Palace, archaeologists now refer to it simply as the "large stone structure"...
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There's a radical redimensioning of this whole "Caligula's tomb discovered" story in the Italian edition of National Geographic:
http://www.nationalgeographic.it/popoli-culture/2011/01/21/news/il_giallo_della_statua_di_caligola-173389/
For those who don't read Italian here's the gist: The man who was caught trying to smuggle out of Italy into Switzerland the statue (in pieces) of Caligula was described by the press as a "tombarolo". The Italian word "tombarolo" literally means a grave-robber, but in the current use of the term it has come to apply to anyone who illegaly digs and tries to sell/export archaeological remains. From the designation of the man in question as a "tombarolo" the press without further ado concluded that he had discovered Caligula's tomb...
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From the designation of the man in question as a "tombarolo" the press without further ado concluded that he had discovered Caligula's tomb...
You have to love the press! Anything for a good story.
Sounds like every news story I hear. I work for a state law enforcement agency and it is always interesting to watch the news stories about the cases that we are working at the lab. I don't know where they come up with the stuff they do!!! :police:
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I know that Suetonius states that Caligula was cremated and buried (twice in fact), are there contemporary sources that refer to a tomb? Given the slights to the established power, the treatment of others' wives, and all the other shining aspects of Caligula's later personality, I'm surprised his body wasn't just dragged to the Tiber on a meat hook and tossed.
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I am willing to bet, if the place turns out be historical, then it will probably be a shrine dedicated to the Caligula during his reign.
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http://news.yahoo.com/lost-statue-roman-emperor-caligula-unveiled-151145421.html
Updated article regarding the statue found in the tomb. It says it was unveiled but I didn't see any good pictures. Does anyone have a link that shows the statue?
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http://news.yahoo.com/lost-statue-roman-emperor-caligula-unveiled-151145421.html
Updated article regarding the statue found in the tomb. It says it was unveiled but I didn't see any good pictures. Does anyone have a link that shows the statue?
Still not a great picture but here you go, McBryne - http://www.ansa.it/web/notizie/rubriche/english/2011/07/12/visualizza_new.html_786877940.html (http://www.ansa.it/web/notizie/rubriche/english/2011/07/12/visualizza_new.html_786877940.html)
The statue is very worn and may appear uninspiring but due to the location of its discovery it is obviously quite an important find.
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I found these photos, together with the article below, on line this morning:
ROME (Reuters) - Officials on Tuesday unveiled a massive statue believed to be that of Roman emperor Caligula sitting on a throne and said it came from an illegal dig south of Rome that may have been the site of one of his palaces.
The statue, which had been broken in several large pieces and a head, was first found last January when Finance Police stopped it from being smuggled out of the country by boat at a port near Rome.
The operation led to the arrest of two so-called "tomb raiders" -- those who dig up the countryside looking for archaeological treasures to sell on the black market.
But more importantly, the arrests led police to the site near Lake Nemi, just south of Rome, where Caligula was believed to have had one of his imperial residences.
The statue, now cleaned of the earth that had covered it for 2,000 years, shows parts of a robed man sitting on an elaborate throne like the Greek god Zeus.
Significantly, it shows a man wearing a "caliga," shoes worn by Roman legionaries and from where the emperor got the name by which he is known. His real name was Gaius Julius Caesar Augustus Germanicus.
Caligula, who reigned from 37 to 41 A.D., has gone down in history as a crazed and power-hungry sex maniac who demanded that his horse, Incitatus, be made a consul.
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Thanx guys! Much better shots than the ones I had found.
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More on Caligula.
http://www.corriere.it/International/english/articoli/2011/07/13/caligola-colossal-statue.shtml
This, if true, is very sad. " The statue of Caligula, which had been cut up into sections for ease of transportation......"
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Is the basis of whether this is, or is not, Emperor Caligula *REALLY* the fact that he was wearing SANDALS? (caligae). I get that these articles are written for the laymen, but come on...
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A news report here with some more images of the statue and of the site where it was discovered :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIgJJtcavDI
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Is the basis of whether this is, or is not, Emperor Caligula *REALLY* the fact that he was wearing SANDALS? (caligae). I get that these articles are written for the laymen, but come on...
I agree. It seems rather flimsy "evidence." I suspect there may be more to the story than the reporters are bothering to report. I hope so.
Perhaps there's an article out there someplace that isn't "dumbed down." If there is I haven't found it yet.
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Is the basis of whether this is, or is not, Emperor Caligula *REALLY* the fact that he was wearing SANDALS? (caligae). I get that these articles are written for the laymen, but come on...
I agree. It seems rather flimsy "evidence." I suspect there may be more to the story than the reporters are bothering to report. I hope so.
Perhaps there's an article out there someplace that isn't "dumbed down." If there is I haven't found it yet.
Still for the "laymen", but somewhat more informative - and rather less confident in using footwear as a means of identification - is this article: http://phdiva.blogspot.com/2011/07/statue-of-caligula-from-lake-nemi.html .
Somehow, I can't prevent myself from picturing the sculptor unveiling the statue. "I showed you as Zeus, your majesty, to reflect your godlike grandeur and power. And just 'cause you were so cute acting like a soldier when you were a teeny-weeny boy with mum and dad in the camp, I put on those lil' sandals, Lord Bootkin." ;D
It's not as though Caligula reacted particularly well to nicknames; at least one of them - "Goat" - he loathed enough to make the mere mention of the animal in his presence a dying offense. Well, according to Suetonius, at any rate. (Caius, 50). So even if "Caligula" was a term of endearment from the soldiers towards the son of a beloved commander, I cannot imagine Caius Iulius liked it enough to have it officially included on imposing, colossal statues.
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I will attach some photos, This statue is not Caligula and the head is way too small to even belong to the seated statue figure?
This statue unfortunately is not Caligula, the head does not match the body and the portrait of the head does not agree with Gaius Caligula’s physiognomy. Even the caligae or sandal seems Greek or hellenistic? I was more excited than anyone at this discovery and hoped it would be Caligula due to the few portraits we have of him. The seated statue that was found seems to be a deity and not a princeps or emperor. I have seen at leas 50 photos and this find is not Gaius Caligula. Here is a real statue of Caligula if you want to see one. http://www.flickr.com/photos/julio-claudians/2154157627/ Statues of Caligula are extremely rare due to “damnatio memoriae” and the hatred the Roman people had for him. The above photo has a break at the neck due to an attempted damnatio memoriae in my opinion. Here is another portrait of Caligula that is clearly mutilated by the Romans and was found in the Tiber river. http://www.flickr.com/photos/julio-claudians/678078963/
Joe Geranio
Julio Claudian Iconographic Association
More photos of the head here.
The head, which does not resemble CCAESAR and is very bad in condition- http://www.flickr.com/photos/imperial_fora_of_rome/5930947651/in/photostream
The seated figure- http://www.flickr.com/photos/imperial_fora_of_rome/5931504686/in/photostream Its funny how the Roman authorities have Caligulan photo in front placard to cause more hype in my opinion. Lake Nemi was a favorite spot of Caligula, but that is not enough proof?
The seated figure seems to be a Greek deity? http://www.flickr.com/photos/imperial_fora_of_rome/5930590567/in/photostream
One more look at the head? http://www.flickr.com/photos/imperial_fora_of_rome/5930353627/in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/imperial_fora_of_rome/5930947757/in/photostream
Joe Geranio
Julio Claudian Group