FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board
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genuine or fake or tooled?
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Tooled. Ugh.
Richard
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from same seller
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and this
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These are good :D (as in awful!)
That is the most coiffed I've ever seen Pupienus' beard. Usually it's a tangled mess ;)
Something that always surprises me is the desire by the "engraver" to give clog-like shoes to the figures on the reverse. Same engraver?
mz
p.s. Have you seen the others in the "Badly-tooled coins here" thread in the "Ancient Coins Forum" topic?
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All three are disasters! Please tell me he hasn't done this to more - 3 is bad enough. Its a three way tie for which one is the worst.
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'He' is not some small-time Ebay crook either.
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I suspect these are complete fakes, not just tooled to sharpen details. So, perhaps both fake and tooled.
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Should this seller be on fake sellers list?
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I suspect these are complete fakes, not just tooled to sharpen details. So, perhaps both fake and tooled.
I agree. They have the look of fakes even beyond the horrible tooling. Doing this to genuine coins, especially to scarce ones, should be a capital offense!
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Should this seller be on fake sellers list?
Nominate the seller if you think so. (Include the eBay user name and a link to their list of items for sale.)
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seller is [REMOVED BY ADMIN]
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The list is for eBay sellers and eBay auctions. These were not eBay auctions. Also, seller is a reputable dealer and not going on the list (though I think they are making a mistake with these).
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Thank you for explanation.
But just to inform myself about rules, and to avoid making similar mistakes in the future.
If I understand well, if a reputable seller sold an obvious faked or tooled coin, the rule says not to write and hide his name from other people, and if he is not famous, than is allowed to write his name? And one more thing, if a famous seller sells fake or tooled coin on Ebay, is than allowed to write his name? If possible, can I get a list of untouchable sellers who can sell fakes, but which names should be protected.
Thank you in advance for your help, I will appreciate your response.
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Perhaps the best thing would be to notify the seller in question regarding these particular items. I do not know who the seller is; I did not see the name before it was removed. I do believe, however, that a reputable seller will remove fakes if brought to their attention.
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They know and they don't care.
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They know, they don't care, and we don't know who they are? How are we supposed to protect ourselves from fake coins if we can't protect ourselves from dealers who sell fake coins due to a blanket-cloak of anonymity?
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Without naming names, it's a German auction house that (for their own reasons) are strongly opposed to having their data archived on sites like acsearch.info. I have drawn my own conclusion what those reasons are and I think so can anybody else.
The Pupienus was withdrawn, I guess that was a little too much.
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strongly opposed to having their data archived on sites like acsearch.info.
even in sixbid... very strange practice, sure.
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If such be the case, I would suggest they may not be so reputable after all, whomever they are.
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Two coins have been sold, "Nepotian" paid 1,500.00 EUR, and "Maxentius" paid 2,600.00 EUR, the third coin has been withdrawn.
I'll contact Auction house and ask them to advise customers who bought problematic coins about problem and to return money to them, or to give me contact e-mail, phone or other address , so I can inform customers about problem.
Of course, I'll let you know about response of Auction house, and if Auction house doesn't response, should it's name be protected or not? Please answer to me.
Also, I don't understand why my post has been removed. I didn't charge Auction house, I just wrote that Auction house sold these "coins". Is that true? Yes, they sold them, with no doubt, there is a proof on their own site. So, I can't see reason for removing my post.
I have read rules of this site, and I haven't found the part which says that it is not allowed to publish the truth.
If really it is not allowed to write the truth, I apologize because I broke a rule.
If Auction house, who works for many years with a lots of experience with ancients, sells fakes, they obviously know that, and it is not mistake, why it is necessary to hide the truth and protect their name?
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Joe, after reading this thread, and at the risk of being hit with "The wrath of Joe", at what point does a "reputable" seller become eligible to be listed as a fake seller? i.e. It's all well and good closing ranks amongst professional dealers, but as with any industry there are bad companies. And if this seller appears to be either slightly crooked, or at best frequently incompetent, shouldn't they be listed?
regards
Mark
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The vast majority of their coins are fine. Just like with many auction houses they offer too many coins that are tooled.
Mostly they are described as such, but many are not. If that is just incompetence (or there is simply not enough time devoted to screening the coins) than they are not very reputable in my book but not crooks or frauds. They are people I will not buy from, their catalogs are still unopened and probably will remain so until I throw them away. There are plenty of anecdotes of arrogant behavior from people that have visited their store which is again something that makes me not want to go there. There are several other good dealers in that city. The fact that they refuse to make their data available to acsearch.info is another reason but completely understandable of course.
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Does one of their names rhyme with gosh?
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Yes.
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Does one of their names rhyme with gosh?
Or with horny :evil:
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Well,
one of my recent threads on a coin very likely to be fake is from this auction house. I do not like the fact that after the coin was not sold due to the problems I pointed out they now do offer it for sale among their unsolds, although they have the facts and they agreed that there is a problem.
I also see that in Füeg's recent book on nomisma this auction house is prominently cited with fakes. No hidden names there!
A further general problem is that forgers probably know very well, where they can inject their fakes into the market...
In my view they do deserve open crititcism, I have another baffling story to this in another thread, also not naming them openly, but as I would say in German:
Das Maß ist voll! (means something like enough is enough!)
byzcoll
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Joe, after reading this thread, and at the risk of being hit with "The wrath of Joe", at what point does a "reputable" seller become eligible to be listed as a fake seller? i.e. It's all well and good closing ranks amongst professional dealers, but as with any industry there are bad companies. And if this seller appears to be either slightly crooked, or at best frequently incompetent, shouldn't they be listed?
regards
Mark
There is some point, of course, but it isn't a firm point in my head. This seller has certainly not passed that point yet. I am much more concerned about listing eBay sellers that beginners are more likely to encounter than an auction house that primarily serves the more experienced collector and which will refund if a coin is fake.
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If they'll refund when a coin is fake, but not PULL a coin for sale when informed that it is fake...isn't that MORE deceptive than your standard ebay fakeseller? Especially when a guarantee of authenticity is either stated or implied?
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If they'll refund when a coin is fake, but not PULL a coin for sale when informed that it is fake...isn't that MORE deceptive than your standard ebay fakeseller? Especially when a guarantee of authenticity is either stated or implied?
Galaxy, whilst I understand your logic, Joe has made it clear that he isn't ready to add this dealer to the list. He will have his reasons for that decision, and as this is his site, we need to respect his views and decisions. From past observations, he is very much his own man, and no amount of cajoling will change his mind. So best to stop beating this deceased equine :)
regards
Mark
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Fair enough.
In the future, if I'm talking about a fake coin, and I tug discreetly on my nose, it means I'm referring to a European Auction house. If I wiggle my ears, it's an American auction house. That way we avoid any confusion and also avoid breaking any rules ;)
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I am interested to hear Freddy's report on:
1. if the auction house replies to him
2. what they say
3. if they are going to contact the buyers and offer a refund
Fake Coins and Notorious Fake Sellers => Topic started by: freddy on October 27, 2010, 07:47:24 am