FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board
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Fake Coins and Notorious Fake Sellers => Topic started by: Joe Sermarini on June 24, 2009, 09:39:37 pm
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Aitnacoins is very unhappy about being on the Notorious list. From CDFL and Forgery Network it seems that he has sold a few fakes. He does use private auctions, which makes him look like a fraud. I have looked at his current store listings and recent eBay listings. It is not at all clear to me that he has sold many fakes or that he should be on the Notorious Fake Sellers list. If you think he belongs on the list, please tell me why.
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Here at board exists six threads with evidences.
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=54189.0
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=53977.0
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=53928.0
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=51798.0
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=53566.0
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=45021
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Yes, i have read that he his unhappy about this and been argueing his case, I have always thought that if a seller isnt very good at identifying fakes then he has a obligation to his customers to have his coins regularly checked out by someone that can spot them. Whether he is selling them on purpose i think is debateable, and IMHO i tend to think not. However the fact remains that unfortunately he has listed fake coins, enough for plenty of people to question him, which in itself is enough not to recommend him as a reliable seller. Its a shame if this is through ignorance rather than deception but the fault does rest with him, since like I said he has a obligation to his customers which could be recitified but has NOT been. And lets face it its not like its just been one or two mistakes. However saying all this, it might be a thought, although probably not feesable, to allow a review, or give a fake seller who insists on their innocence, a time span of maybe a year to get their act together, and get inplace a system that wont allow fakes to slip through, then maybe they could be removed from the list. At the end of the day there are plenty of sellers that know their jobs and don't sell fakes, like your good self. So I think they should stay on the list, for now.
romeo
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I agree.
This is not a case of fakes of low-grade denarii slipping through.
These are coins that would be very valueable if real and anybody selling these coins should
educate themselves before they do so.
It's just like the Saxby case, what difference does it make to the buyer whether it's
an amazing degree of incompetece or fraud? If no steps are taken to rectify the situation there is no practical difference in my opinion.
Andreas
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He has been quite vehement in defending his coins. He sent us countless emails, mostly in Italian, but we had trouble finding many of the adjectives in our dictionary so there were communication issues... :'( I believe he is honest and that he trusts his Sicilian source without questions. Maybe there are problems at the source that he needs to address. Notwithstanding my affiliation to FORVM, and just speaking like a regular coin collector and buyer I would say that his Greek silver offerings on ebay are let's say genuinely suspicious. With all the talk and the repeated accusation, he has earned notoriety indeed.
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In this topic: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=53928.0 are two twinned syracusian tetradrachmes which was sold both by aitnacoins within one-year distance.
Two twinned Katane: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=51798.0
Same case - one was sold one year before offering another.
Can it be "honest mistake" ?
I have very big doubt.
Also i'm give one comment for cast fake "cloned" 16-litrae, which he sold to me. This "coin" can be absolutely easy identified at hands. No chance for "mistake".
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This seller has a variety of methods of sourcing his coins. Quite a few of the recent offerings have been bought from a major European ebay seller and then resold for profit.
I find many of his offerings to be doubtful and there are some clear cases of high end duplicates. Many fake sellers mix their fakes with legitimate coins but still warrant their position on the list. It might be an idea to add a comment to his entry on the list explaining his complaint and perhaps also pointing to some of the threads discussed above.
Martin
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I am still inclined to take Aitnacoins off the list and let us inform him if he lists a fake and see if he removes it. We have a few examples of fakes he has sold but we know that every dealer makes mistakes. We seem to have evidence he experimented with patina at least once. But that is really not enough to go on the list. If the number of fakes is high, I have not seen them. Post them here. Talk is one thing, examples another.
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Joe,
That is fine. I will be keeping a close eye on his offerings to see if any more fakes appear.
Martin
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I dont want to annoy anyone, and i guess it really dosen't matter what i think, but i will say it anyway, surely the above arguement could be used for a number of sellers on the fake list? I have just been re-examining the threads listed above (plenty of them by the way, enough evidence that any court in the land would don their black cap) and his excuses seem like the same excuses any dealer would make, being desperate to save their business and avoid the dreaded list. Im sure saxby could argue the same and has been caught out as far as i can see only roughly the same number of times.
Having said that, apart from it really being none of my business lol, I agree someone should be examined very carefully indeed before being on the list, since after all this is their livelihood and have most likely got families dependant on the income, and when dealing with hundreds of coins, to examine close up and to compare all the time to other coins, although being part of the job, would surely be open to mistakes. The very nature of this is, say out of 1000 coins that pass through your hands, you miss 3, then you can have 3 fake reports against you and your reputation could be in trouble, and hence your business. Saying that other dealers manage I suppose. I believe in a fair chance to everyone, and a second, third or fourth chance etc especially where there are jobs on the line and i also believe in firm justice for those taking advantage of others. Its so plain to see the sellers that nearly every coin is a fake, and yes the book should be thrown at the them, but I think if a dealer makes several mistakes which could well be the case here, then a chance should be given to rectify and whenever they do 'accidently' sell a fake notice should be closely taken how they deal with it. This after sales care reflects so much on what a dealers real motives are.
romeo
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I am still inclined to take Aitnacoins off the list and let us inform him if he lists a fake and see if he removes it. We have a few examples of fakes he has sold but we know that every dealer makes mistakes. We seem to have evidence he experimented with patina at least once. But that is really not enough to go on the list. If the number of fakes is high, I have not seen them. Post them here. Talk is one thing, examples another.
"Some fakes"????
Wow, within one year he sold (or offered) fake coins within total value more than 50.000EUR.
All of them was very valuable types of coins, most of them - really dangerous.
So, aitnacoins is much more dangerous than anyone another cheater from "blacklist".
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"Some fakes"????
Wow, within one year he sold (or offered) fake coins within total value more than 50.000EUR.
All of them was very valuable types of coins, most of them - really dangerous.
So, aitnacoins is much more dangerous than anyone another cheater from "blacklist".
Don't just tell me, show me. Don't just put up a bunch of photos of his coins that you think are fake without saying why you think they are fake. If you put up photos explain why. I am asking for evidence, not your estimate of value with nothing to back it up.
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Zero coins currently listed.
The VAST majority of sold items are listed as "privat" and a picture of the items can't be viewed.
Hmmm.
PeteB
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Don't just tell me, show me. Don't just put up a bunch of photos of his coins that you think are fake without saying why you think they are fake. If you put up photos explain why. I am asking for evidence, not your estimate of value with nothing to back it up.
Many of them exist at Board.
What's about Naxos didrachm, Joe?
You was agree, what it's fake: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=53566.0
This 8000EUR value fake still offered at his site: http://aitnacoins.eu/
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oooo, that is and everything else i have read and seen, not just on this board, is quite damning evidence to be honest, and anitacoins responses seem fairly rude too. although it does seem xintaris75 has a vendetta to nail this seller?
romeo
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For the Naxos didrachm: First he has offered this coin on ebay without Certifate of Authenticity , after the massive protest on CDFL and here in Forum, he has included a certificate in the Description and least he has the same coin without certificate on his web-site ??? This steps are very Suspicious to me.
If someone has a very expensive coin and has a certifacate of Authenticity for this coin why didn't tell the buyers for the first moment?? ???
Finally, why all the Bronze coins have all the same yellowish patina and why, all are bronze from Sicily(most expensive greek bronze coins) and not another greek bronze?
I think here are too much questions, which must answered first , and then if so, must aitnacoins removed for the list, not before!
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I am fairly fluent in Italian however not Sicilian. If you'd like I can take a look at his emails.
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What's about Naxos didrachm, Joe?
You was agree, what it's fake: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=53566.0
This 8000EUR value fake still offered at his site: http://aitnacoins.eu/
My exact words, "I think fake." That is not the same as saying it IS fake.
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For the Naxos didrachm: First he has offered this coin on ebay without Certifate of Authenticity , after the massive protest on CDFL and here in Forum, he has included a certificate in the Description and least he has the same coin without certificate on his web-site ??? This steps are very Suspicious to me...
Certificates of Authenticity are meaningless.
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I am fairly fluent in Italian however not Sicilian. If you'd like I can take a look at his emails.
I think we have understood what we need to understand. Thanks.
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Joe, as they say, history repeats itself, and despite your occasional gruffness on the boards, you do try and see the good side of people sometimes. I seem to remember you arguing that Saxby's should be given a chance after they argued many times about their innocence, and look where they are now.
Obviously I shouldn't judge each potential fakes seller by the actions of another I know, however you have to admit the MO does look familiar.
regards
Mark
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I think there should be two lists. List A should identify scoundrels and scammers -- the dangerous criminals who we should steer clear of all the time. List B should identify dealers who are honest but incompetent (at least in some areas) -- people who sell real coins but make a lot of mistakes.
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I am not going to judge the competence of other dealers.
I think there should be two lists. List A should identify scoundrels and scammers -- the dangerous criminals who we should steer clear of all the time. List B should identify dealers who are honest but incompetent (at least in some areas) -- people who sell real coins but make a lot of mistakes.
There is a clear line between fraud and honest. There is no clear line between competent and incompetent. I don't want to attempt to judge that.
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Finally, why all the Bronze coins have all the same yellowish patina and why, all are bronze from Sicily (most expensive greek bronze coins) and not another greek bronze?
A headline in Fake Ancient Coin Reports:
"Not every coin with an artificial patina is a forgery, but it is an indicator. In any case an artificial patina is a FAKE patina."
Many of these Sicily bronze, part of them look as genuine, are strongly tooled.
The problem is that, in contrast to "crying fakes", it is more difficult to prove that "dangerous fakes" are fakes.
The existence of multiple "incarnations" is a crucial argument.
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There is a clear line between fraud and honest. There is no clear line between competent and incompetent. I don't want to attempt to judge that.
I think I was a little rash in my choice of words. What I meant to say is that there are some dealers who sell a lot of fakes (or sometimes exclusively fake coins), and based on the circumstances (private auctions, refusal to cancel auctions even when presented with evidence, etc.) there is reason to believe that they are doing so intentionally. There is another category of cyberspace dealers who sell a lot of fake coins, but it not clear whether they are doing so intentionally. I am referring to dealers who are not well known in the numismatic community and who make a lot of mistakes -- not the occasional mistake from an established dealer. I am thinking of people like Saxby. The guy sells a lot of Byzantine coins, but his attributions are frequently wrong. He also sells a lot of fake Byzantine coins. Because his attributions are wrong so often, I wonder whether the guy is a fraud, or if he just doesn't know much about Byzantine coins. Whether he acts intentionally or not, he makes enough mistakes that I think that his store should be on a list somewhere, if for no other reason than to advise buyers that maybe they should get a second opinion first. There may be a clear line between fraud and honest, but for some fake sellers I am not sure which side of the line they are on.
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There is a clear line between fraud and honest. There is no clear line between competent and incompetent. I don't want to attempt to judge that.
Whether he acts intentionally or not, he makes enough mistakes that I think that his store should be on a list somewhere, if for no other reason than to advise buyers that maybe they should get a second opinion first. There may be a clear line between fraud and honest, but for some fake sellers I am not sure which side of the line they are on.
In the case of Saxby's he has already been advised that he sells fakes. From his reply here and his attitude and his persistance in continuing to sell fakes on the premise that non of us here know what we are talking about but he does, I can safely conclude that he DOES NOT CARE wether he is selling a fake coin or not! What does this make him? An error prone but honest dealer? Ha! I think not!
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personally i think exactly the same could be said about anitacoins, although Joe wants actually pictorial evidence further to whats already on the boards, which is difficult since his previous listings are private.
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Saxby is a fraud. He has been told about certain coins and has persisted with the same incorrect authentications and attributions.
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I believe that Obryzum's proposal of two or more lists makes sense as for the collectors the most important information is to judge themselves and stay away from any sellers who keep on repeatedly having all kinds of serious problems. The ‘notorious’ list is useful as it is, but the second list could have a short description informing that several of our board members have raised concerns about either the coins or business practices and what those concerns are if not just occasional fakes. I would not call them ‘incompetent’ and as less that ‘notorious’ we might need a nice euphemism for them and for their different types. All in all, the attitude of the trader to address questions and suspicions tells a lot about their honesty and integrity. Now it seems that the bar is set far too high, if traders like aitnacoins can stay outside any list. If they are not notorious enough then another list is needed. I have never bought a coin from either the Saxby's or from aitnacoins and on the basis of the information I have gathered from these pages and judging myself their homepages I will never buy a coin from either of them even if there were no problems with an individual coin. I hope that these board discussions have also warned others to be extra cautious with these traders, including the auction houses. The key point is that I am most grateful to have all this information available about possible problems with different traders and that I believe that the very existence of this kind of board helps to maintain and improve standards. On the contrary, I would not stop buying coins from some of my main sources in the case that one of the coins would turn out to be a fake or if one of board members reported a problem with a coin, as I assume that the trader would respond in an honest way. Most traders are honest and there are enough honest traders to deal with, and, if problems, sort out the problems in a transparent and friendly way. I also understand that it is a sensitive issue to the FORVM to be caught in a situation when the board members rightly or wrongly accuse a trader of being a notorious criminal. Obviously some of the traders can't see a difference between the opinions of the board members and that of the FORVM owner and do not understand that some unjustified complaints or isolated mistakes would never place a trader on any list. Would it help if it was made clearer that the FORVM is not involved in the final decision to place problem traders on the list/lists or to remove them from there. The moderators as well-respected numismatists might well be given dictatorial powers to decide or should there be some kind of voting mechanism (among independent experts, chosen by elections) if we believe in democracy/ oligarchy. In any case, from a collector's point of view I would like to have even more information available. Furthermore, it would also be useful to have as much as possible information available in the form of an easy-to-check list/ lists without having to read all the threads. After all, the complaints are already out there and the B list could be seen more as a summary of complaints on fake related unusual business practices rather than a final and binding verdict. All these lists always leave it possible for the suspected trader to prove his/her case and, therefore, clear his/her name.
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I can certainly prevent the imagination of each one of you will soak in the views of any kind, this form of debate sen'altro is a form of democracy, each from his own opinion, and here I find it very normal,
but what is absolutely not normal and to discredit a seller on the basis of many inmpressioni and wrong views, like yours, and above all is very dangerous to give the criminal a person who does not know enough, I do not believe that he had never sold any of you my money, and therefore is out of place every charge of crime, as about containers that you put on trial, that in this world there are people who dele restorers are called, I am one of those and use my way of restoring a money without affecting their primitive state, if there were the restorers would certainly sometimes difficult to see some beautiful bronze currency because most of the bronze coins are damaged by the chemical properties of soil, so before continuing to the hysterical fantasies your discussions please also consider that, as regards the fact that I am on the blacklist, this really affects me a little and not make any sense, it might be possible to ask this group to show a few coins to your collection, perhaps we could do a couple of laughs on the coins to your collection, what do you think? perhaps this would be the best way to define democracy
my most heartfelt greetings
www.aitnacoins.de
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Francheschino,
yours last post have zero sence.
If you want to be serious, please explain us, how was happened that, what you let pass to go for some exactly twinned copies of rare coins.
As example, yours Katane tetradrachmes:
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is the sametetradrachm that I have put on sale a few months ago but remained unsold, the owner has made clear that currency by an incompetent, but as stress is one of my client I have offered to return it for sale, but I had expected that would be born of misunderstandings, but I was also not sure that I would have sold you solved the mystery, and this is wrong for her but then all other currencies in some unsold auction and then returned for sale in other auctions should be false does not it seem? but I ask you riese to think with his brain, or to think if they give another? ;D
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is the sametetradrachm that I have put on sale a few months ago but remained unsold, the owner has made clear that currency by an incompetent, but as stress is one of my client I have offered to return it for sale, but I had expected that would be born of misunderstandings, but I was also not sure that I would have sold you solved the mystery, and this is wrong for her but then all other currencies in some unsold auction and then returned for sale in other auctions should be false does not it seem? but I ask you riese to think with his brain, or to think if they give another? ;D
Who from board members agree with aitnacoins what this is same coin?
[click for enlarge]
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Cast from same host, but different cast I think. There are some differences in the surfaces of both coins.
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One is finer in detail, they are not the same coin
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Well, now i can say:
mr. F.Filippo, you are lier and cheater.
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well say what the think the comment of Caius Caligula is wrong and it shows they could not interpret the same coin and the same, and then let me know the credentials of Caius Caligula, who said he is mistaken in interpretation. I can say this because I know the story of what happened with this much money but I think that this does not change anything then and remains the only Cheater her, and being careful not to continue to offend certainly does not honor
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and then let me know the credentials of Caius Caligula, who said he is mistaken in interpretation.
My credentials are none of your business!! I offered an opinion on the coin, not on you or your business so I recommend you refrain from personal attacks in the future like calling people idiots and childish. Such actions only reveal a very low level and base intellect.
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Well, don't want to get caught in the rumble but there's no need to be an expert here, anyone with eyes to see will notice the differences between the two. One, just one, being the blank spot in the hairs above the wreath on the second coin, where the details are well defined on the first one.
Unless the person who first bought it put it in circulation and caught it back when it came around, there's no logical explanation for the loss of details on the second coin.
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Anybody can see that they are two diferent coins. Look at the differences of the surface of the coin around the cheeks and the bottom of the neck.
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I have not asked an opinion about my intellect or my culture and I just want to limit myself to stick to the debate as a personal attack you should read all the posts in my respect and rendra that those who attack me are also on staff species xintaris75 this does not lose that opportunity to make mockery of the whole group with his post with the intention to discredit, however, since I had no intension to attack personally, I would want to verify once again the two currencies, and I can guarantee that it is the same money, which unfortunately incompetent in wanting to make silver color has deteriorated some details, that's why nase doubt but if you look at some details, especially in the etnikos you see that is the same issue, and the edges are the same, I can guarantee this personally, but if you want to try to force an interpretation different then any discussion is out of place
regards
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Francheschino,
it's fun to read yours lies.
Please, comment another twinned coins from yours list. Are these photo same coin?
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same currency is also the first picture and after cleaning of the coin and the second state before cleaning
the currency is still in me wants to buy?
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same currency is also the first picture and after cleaning of the coin and the second state before cleaning
the currency is still in me wants to buy?
Funny guy, thank you
can you explain, why uncleaned coin more lighter than cleaned ( 16,85vs17,20)?
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the actual weight of this coin is 17.10 grams and the second used balances the weight could vary from 1 to 3 grams, and this is normal because we did not want to spend a lot of money for balance of precision that does not guarantee anything exact
I think that if this is the source of his doubts now certainly has an explanation on this coin
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What a hell is it?
FINALLY, IS THIS SAME COIN, OR NO????????????????
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the response has just been learning to read is this is the same currency
now but please ask me impertinente otherwise unresponsive
HAS THE SAME COIN
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Which mode of cleaning leads to coin's increase in weight???????????
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I am sorry but I am not obliged to give you information that you can not understand
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I am sorry but I am not obliged to give you information that you can not understand
Well, what can i say?
I'm very lucky what F. Filippo is not my supplier.
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the actual weight of this coin is 17.10 grams and the second used balances the weight could vary from 1 to 3 grams, and this is normal because we did not want to spend a lot of money for balance of precision that does not guarantee anything exact
I think that if this is the source of his doubts now certainly has an explanation on this coin
Amusing discussion...only to add that with the business you are doing, I hope the margin of business is not so thin that you can not afford $30 worth of a scale and a calibration weight?
[liNK REMOVED BY ADMIN]
this cheap one will cut down your weight variation from 1 to 3 grams to .01 gram :)
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Of course the edges of the two coins are the same bacause they are both cast from the same host coin. They are two different coins as you can easily tell by areas of difference on the cheek and neck or are you going to say this happened when the coin was cleaned?
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not nonsense to say the coin is the same and depending on the photo and the type of light could also take various aspects that it is the same coin can be seen especially by the striations of the issue that you are in front of the face at the top right
with regard to the specific weight that the differences from 0.1 to 0.3 grams gramms
so if a balance is the weight of 17.10, it is possible that in another the weight to be 17.20 g
then I see no utility in the discussion in the last two messages posted
Note that my messages are translated by google so it should be understood the translation error
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They are not the same coin. Any fool can see that there are marks on the cheek and infront of the mouth and also at the base of the neck on the second coin that are not on the first. To argue that they are the same coin is just rediculous.
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Ok - this is just going around in circles; it seems over the last few days every post is about Aitnacoins. The seller obviously isn't happy about these fake claims and is becoming defensive which is not helping the situation(plus translation is a difficulty on top)
His coins have appeared he on a regular basis and most of the time the opinion is they are dubious; I think a decision needs to be made if he stays(goes on) the notorious list since discussion is not helping
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Does Aitnacoins offer the same lifetime guarantees and return policies to his customers, similiar to one that Forvm offers? I have always found it more enlightening as to the character of a dealer or retailer by how they handle a problem versus how they handle routine business transactions.
Cameron
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Joe,
i would suggest that you ask Dr. Prokopov about the aitnacoins coins published here in forum, i think then are all disputes cleared.
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dear Adrian S then you want to suggest that the body is I? mind about what the bait from the mouth and learn to use your brain, I do not have any reason to say one thing for another of the reasons that you have to verify the photos are not the same reasons that I am, that this money they possess only one but if you are of different opinion I can not give any other explanation, but tell me the courtesy of not using the word will make a fool otherwise appears to be incompetent
Hi Simmurray hi to me on your blacklist no interests me a beautiful thing, I gave several times but the explanations discussed with you and discuss as a wall, certainly makes you comfortable stay with your doubts certainly for reasons only you know and this point to me any other explanation is useless, my grandfather said that discussions with a person who absolutely does not want to understand is how to argue with someone who can not hear
Finally, I will not force anyone of you to buy coins from my sales, but if qulcuno wants to do it and then I had doubts and discontent of those who bought there is always the option to repay the money within 90 days, and then as you see offer all the security of this world
but I must confess that I feel this is an interrogation of third grade, maybe someone of you is part of the FBI or the CIA
ame, but now everything is clear I am certainly communicating with people who comfort incorrect to say things, which of you has ever bought a coin from me and was able to think that I am a forger? I think none of you then give me the courtesy to finish a misrepresentation to say no end is not opinion-would see that there are others who say Loe same things, but not tire of repeating the same thing?
among my clients include people who regularly make the coins look for more parts and so far I have not had any problems, I am a guy who does not accept the arrogance of knowledge at all costs, and the difficulty of some people in want to understand things wrong
if you want to express your opinions you can do to night bars and assure you that between a beer and a lot of mouths to escape meaninglessness
the right to give me the thief or the forger can only allow my clients not to any individual who claims to know.
you can ask for opinions on who you want whether Mr. Prokopovo is an expert knows that the currencies are considered to be present and not on the picture if you wish, and in Europe can be hosted by me and will appreciate all of your misinterpretations and I think that this might be enough to understand that I I am sure of what I say
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These tit for tat arguments have no place on the public boards. Please take them to private messages.
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I'm want to note what F. Filippo is not just seller of cast twinned fakes, but also and very dangerous forgered rare coins struck from transfered dies.
Please, look at these two images. First of them is coin, which sold by major European auction, perhaps donor for fake dies.
Second was sold by aitnacoins at last year. Exclude a undoubtly modern flan, it's looks very good. But in comparision with another original examples from these dies, it's obvius fake. Good fake, but not perfect.
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This coin was withdrawn from my sales in August 2009 after nearly a month of appearances on my pages, because in a more accurate Recheck I was born of suspicion and then I returned the coin to the person who had given me and I have provided with warn other sellers sending photographs and explanations of my suspicions, you should not come to me and tell me these things but it must send its objections to those who have or those who actually sold this coin.
but it is clear that she does not waste time and find every excuse and every opportunity to try to slander that is why I have repeatedly said that an idiot like you do not accept other offenses, you should reflect only discuss the facts without offending anyone as instead continued to make his lowliness and showed the whole culture, this is only what you can expect from someone like you
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Nice answer, Francheschino
what you can says about this coin from yours listing?
Was it sold or withdrawn?
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All I can say is if this guy doesn't belong on the list then who does?
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prefer as an answer? I think that you do not have to do and I think that his job is solely to get around to find the witch and she gives me the impression that the witchdoctors 400 - 500 that were burning witches and hang for unnecessary grounds who were found in suspicion, and I think she is the reincarnation of one of these Executioner, if you have other photos you can send us to see, so now you play alone, may not realize but she takes away the space to others who have perhaps the most sensible questions
Then we go to please put aside and leave the room to the other such applications are very childish, and any answer I can give you on time shows that he did not understand
Your problem is elsewhere and should not affect certain discussions
you can send all photos of this world but I do not believe that it is able to solve any problem because they do not absolutely know some details which I am not obliged to explain, and stop sending offensive messages in private as these
CONGRATULATIONS!
YOU ARE Bankrupt!
Vorrei proporre un accordo:
Ho pagato per il 1050EUR monete
si torna a me 850EUR, moneta resta con me.
Questa è una buona proposta, moneta costo non superiore a 150 euro, che è, non perdere. Vorrei scrivere in CFDL e FAC che mi hai dato soldi, e ha chiuso per monitorare il traffico.
Questa è la mia ultima proposta di pace a voi.
SQUIRTE !!!!
non ho ancora finito, μαλακα
Puttana ITALLIANA! MAFIA
YOU ARE A LARGE a large piece of stuff.
ITALIAN MAFIA!!!!
STRONZO !!!!!!
Your are a Profesional forgery-factory nothing else......
I wonder, and that a communication model of high education calendar
then what else could I answer?
I know there are other ways to communicate with a person but unfortunately you can use methods that would also throw up a dead
arrivederci e si goda le vacanze ne ha propio di bisogno
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Francheschino,
i have about twenty yours letters which includes insults for me personal, for Greek nation and for Greece.
You sent me and some letters with threats.
I'm not so stupid for publishing them. Are you want for i'm start to make it?
It's nonsence.
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xintaris75 to do my last proposal, I shall send you the money that it considers a fake, I harbor for those who have sold me and I must point out this anomaly, and I guarantee that once the currency is delivered I will authorize reimbursement money to his account, my proposal is valid up to 08 days in July 2009 if by that day I have not received any money, I dovrám more contact with their delusions and threats, of course, the money will espertizata and expert costs € 175 if it is false as you say the sum of € 175 will be paid by me if the original report shows you should send € 175 for others as well and together, and so can produce his coin with a certificate of originality that will be done by a world-renowned expert
But one thing to say already now, do not send me a copy of what you purchase on Ebay repeatedly by those who certainly knows her very well and that took of false particulars, I should send what I sold I, um, this is the message that the dispatch with all sincerity as possible, and please do not use other tricks to make proposals or outrageous as it has always done
Only now is she to decide what to do more than this I can not suggest and remember that this proposal to him and also made the phone but she is refusing any arrangement not me, that's why I keep repeating that it is dangerous and incorrect you make me know what to decide
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Boy oh boy. This whole thread illustrates why one should stick to the Forvm (and similar reputable dealers) when purchasing upper end coins. Can anyone imagine such a dispute with Joe? I can't.
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Unfortunately Italian is not suited well to electronic translation.
Whatever good points there may be are unfortunately lost to me.
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Yes, I believe it would be much better if michelsantini wrote in Italian. It would be easier to understand...at least for me. The automatic translation is not working well.
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He would at least deserve a special mention for tenacity and forwardness in the face of adversity. As for the rest, his arguments are obscured by the language barrier. Still, his confidence transpire. He would surely need a good translator, the automated one don't do him any good.
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What about this coin from Aitnacoins. Something seems strange though I can't put my finger on what it is.
Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know these very well. ;D
[BROKEN LINK REMOVED BY ADMIN]
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Aitna coins sells a lot of altered Roman Republican bronzes (and other bronzes). Typically they are heavily tooled. They can be easily detected by the unnatural hairlines, but also more generally by the contrast between the bad surfaces and wear evidence of the underlying coin - pitting, corrosion, wear etc - and the apparently immaculate high-points. The new green patinas are of course a give-away but not by themselves decisive. Compare the following Aitna altered coin where the high points are apparently in much better condition than the low surfaces - look at all the damage in the field
[BROKEN LINK REMOVED BY ADMIN]
with a real, genuine, unaltered Roman Republican As. No comparison.
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Oddly I don't think of them as dangerous, most of them are badly made and obvious. But the fact that someone bid $279 and another person bid $278 is a surprise to me.
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This guy never stops:
here are two images, first coin now listed him in e-bay, second - he sold two years ago...
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Why should this Guy Stop?
If users exist which pays $300 for a fake coin, he has 1000% profit......
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Yup, as long as there are innocent or greedy people out there who think they've stumbled onto a bargain without having the knowledge and experience to see it for what it really is then blackguards like this individual will continue to make a fortune by conning people out of their hard-earned money. It sickens me to the core.
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I beleive, what F.Filippo has also one account at E-bay - "decussius".
Here is image of fake gold coins from "decussius", which was spotted in CFDL, and twins from http://aitnacoins.eu.
These coins much more expensive than $300 each ;)