FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board

Numism => Reading For the Advanced Collector => Topic started by: curtislclay on August 20, 2007, 09:41:57 am



Title: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: curtislclay on August 20, 2007, 09:41:57 am
Hadrian's main issue of Eastern denarii seems to have been produced c. 129-131 in connection with his second great provincial tour.

The obv. and rev. types generally copy those of Roman denarii.  Many of the types are rare, attested in only a couple of specimens, and it is not unusual for previously unknown types to emerge.

The usual obv. legend is HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS P P, a legend that was used at Rome in 128-9.

Considerably rarer are Eastern denarii with obv. legend HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS or HADRIANVS AVG COS III P P, the first of which was used at Rome c. 125-8 and then again c. 129-131, and the second of which was Hadrian's latest obv. legend at Rome, used from c. 131 on.

My first coin, acquired at the recent ANA show in Milwaukee, has obv. legend HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS, rev. ROMA FELIX COS III P P, Roma seated l. on curule chair, holding branch and scepter, 3.01 g., 6h.

This is an exact copy of a Rome-mint denarius of c. 130-1, the second coin below, but is unpublished in Eastern style.  It is from the same obv. die as Strack pl. XX, *21, the third coin reproduced below, which has the earlier Roman rev. type P M TR P COS III, Mars advancing r. holding spear and trophy over shoulder.

That Mars advancing rev. type was used at Rome in the early 120s, but was evidently copied on Eastern denarii considerably later, c. 130!


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: curtislclay on August 20, 2007, 10:16:58 am
My second coin, perhaps just by engraver's error, has the two words of the obv. legend reversed, AVGVSTVS - HADRIANVS.  Rev. is COS - III, Minerva standing l. holding thunderbolt and spear, shield on ground behind her, 2.91 g., corroded, 6h, from Forvm.

Strack knew just three Eastern denarii with this transposed obv. legend, including one with this Minerva standing rev. type in the Trau coll., Strack's pl. XVIII, *18, reproduced below, which is from the same dies as my coin.  This Eastern rev. type is exceptional because it does NOT appear to be known on any Rome-mint denarius of Hadrian.  It is a common-enough type, being for example one of the four Minerva types repeated by Domitian on his denarii year after year during the second half of his reign.

The same Eastern obv. die of my coin was also used for Strack's pl. XVIII, *19 with rev. COS III, Eagle with spread wings standing on thunderbolt, also reproduced below.


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: curtislclay on August 21, 2007, 12:15:33 am
I have now added above reproductions of the three die-linked coins in Strack.

In the first posting, the coin numbered *21 is from the same obv. die as my ROMA FELIX COS III P P coin.

In the second posting, *18 is from the same dies as my corroded AVGVSTVS - HADRIANVS / Minerva denarius, and *19 is from the same obv. die, but with Eagle standing rev. type.  The asterisk before Strack's numbers means "Eastern mint".

Thanks again to Susan Headley for making and editing the scans.   She produced three of the five images, all except the Rome-mint ROMA FELIX COS III P P, which is from CoinArchives, and my second acquisition, which is the seller's image, that is Forvm's!


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: Salem Alshdaifat on August 21, 2007, 12:31:28 am
Thanks Curtis
one qustion plz, when you say Eastern where could that be???
regards
Salem


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: curtislclay on August 21, 2007, 12:37:46 am
Salem,

Probably Asia Minor, but that question has still to be resolved.

Perhaps the Eastern denarii can be attributed to one of the Asia Minor mints that also struck cistophori for Hadrian.


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: maridvnvm on August 21, 2007, 02:23:38 am
Curtis,
Many thanks for sharing these fascinating coins. I, for one never knew that these eastern denarii existed and it is wonderful to see them. I notice that all the examples are struck on good sized flans. Is this typical of these issues?
Regards,
Martin


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: Beast on August 21, 2007, 09:57:05 am
Hadrian's Eastern denarii are rare and not well documented. I've been collecting them for a few years now in order to try to get enough examples so as to write a book on them as Metcalf did with Hadrian's AR Cistophori by mint.

Over the past 2 years, I have only been able to acquire 3 Antioch mint pieces and 13 other Eastern mint coins. The coins definitely were different "Eastern" mints, based on style.

Here is an Antioch mint example:

(http://www.beastcoins.com/RomanImperial/II/Hadrian/Hadrian-NIR-Antioch-Pax.jpg)

Hadrian, AR Denarius, 117-138, Antioch
IMP CAESAR TRAIAN HADRIANVS AVG
Laureate, cuirassed bust right, slight drapery on left shoulder
P M TR POT_ES COS III
Pax standing facing, head left, branch downward in right hand, cornucopiae in left
PAX in exergue
20mm, 2.91g
RIC II, --; BMCRE --; RSC --

And here are some other examples of completely different style/mint:

(http://www.beastcoins.com/RomanImperial/II/Hadrian/Hadrian-RICII-245a-Eastern.jpg)

Hadrian, AR Denarius, 134-138 (?), Undetermined Eastern Mint
HADRIANVS-AVG COS III P P
Bare head right, slight drapery on left shoulder
FORTV_NA AVG
Clementia or Concordia standing facing, head left, patera in right hand, cornucopiae in left
18mm x 20mm, 3.02g
RIC II, 245a (Rome)

(http://www.beastcoins.com/RomanImperial/II/Hadrian/Hadrian-RICII-297-Eastern.jpg)

Hadrian, AR Denarius, 134-138, Undetermined Eastern Mint
HADRIANVS-AVG COS III P P
Bare head right
AEGYPTOS
Egypt reclining left, sistrum in right hand, left arm resting on modius filled with grain ears, ibis at feet
18mm x 20mm, 3.39g
RIC II, 297 (Rome)

(http://www.beastcoins.com/RomanImperial/II/Hadrian/Hadrian-RICII-NIR-EasternClementia.jpg)

Hadrian, AR Denarius, 131-132 (?), Undetermined Eastern Mint
HADRIANVS-AVG COS III P P
Bare head right
COS-III
Concordia or Clementia standing facing, head left, patera in right hand, cornucopiae in left
19mm, 2.76g
RIC II, --

Here is my page on Hadrian, which covers all of the Rome and other mint pieces I have or have had:

http://www.beastcoins.com/RomanImperial/II/Hadrian/Hadrian.htm

As far as I am aware, the largest single collection of Eastern mint Hadrian denarii sold as a collection was Michael Kelly's pieces by Spink in Auction 123, November 1997.  Mr. Kelly had 1 Antioch mint piece (Aequitas reverse) and 9 other "Asia Minor" mint examples. He sent me a copy of the auction catalogue to use for my research. Unfortunately, it seems that after looking at my collection for a while, Mr. Kelly got the bug again and has restarted collecting the Eastern mint coins!

--Beast


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: curtislclay on August 21, 2007, 12:52:02 pm
Beast,

A couple of comments:

Yes, the early Eastern denarii (Antioch) are from a different mint than the later ones (Asia Minor), but it would appear that the later Asia Minor series may all be from one rather than several mints.

You can't, I think, write a book about these coins based solely on the ones you manage to buy; you've got to collect all available material from museum and other private collections and innumerable published works too, as Metcalf did for the cistophori!  Plus, nowadays, all the material accessible via the internet.

You've got to study the Roman coinage of Hadrian too, since the date of the appearance of a certain type or legend at Rome provides the terminus post quem for its appearance on the Eastern denarii.  Mattingly's date of 134 for the introduction of the obv. legend HADRIANVS AVG COS III P P at Rome, for example, is a major obstacle to correctly understanding the Eastern denarii, since it is apparently a couple of years too late.  Assuming an even production of denarii year by year from 128 until 138, that obv. legend will have been introduced at Rome c. 131, meaning that the Eastern denarii do not have to last beyond 132 and can be plausibly associated with Hadrian's second provincial tour, which began in 128 and may also have ended in 131 or 132.

You have some very nice and interesting Eastern pieces, for example the three with the rarer obv. legend HADRIANVS AVG COS III P P that you show us above!

The last Hadrian denarius under mint of Rome on your website, with rev. COS III, Victory seated l., 2.41 g., is in fact also Eastern. 

Right above that coin you have two with rev. COS III, Aequitas standing l.  I am inclined to think, though it is not yet proven, that all coins with this type belong to the Eastern mint, their rather fine style being due to the fact that they are the mint's earliest coins, so still strongly under the influence of the mint of Rome, perhaps even using engravers from that mint.

Martin,

Since Hadrian's Roman denarii too are generally on ample flans, flan size has never been one of my conscious criteria for recognizing Eastern denarii, but maybe it contributes to my recognition of the Eastern "fabric"!


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: Beast on August 21, 2007, 07:45:10 pm
Curtis,

Thanks for the information and I'll go review the pieces you mention. I am actually keeping all of the information on any examples that come up for my research, which is why Michael Kelly sent me the Spink auction catalog. Hopefully there really will be enough pieces of data to put something together and I do somewhat collect Hadrian's Rome coinage as well, which will also help to compare for the research and chronology. Metcalf's book will also hopefully be of some guidance when comparing styles.

Best regards,

--Beast

ps - I still LOVE that first piece you showed me at the ANA show a couple of weeks ago. An excellent find!


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: frederic W on August 29, 2007, 03:55:56 pm
Very interesting ! Thank you.


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: curtislclay on October 12, 2007, 01:06:26 am
Here is another, nicer, Eastern denarius of Hadrian with reversed obv. legend, AVGVSTVS - HADRIANVS, rev. COS III, Crescent and seven stars, Strack *20, unique in Vienna (not illustrated by Strack or BMC).

The rev. type, as usual, is copied from denarii struck at Rome, even the legend placement in exergue occurs there, though usually the legend runs clockwise, COS on left and III on right.

The obverse of this denarius, in portrait style and transposed legend order, is quite similar to the cistophorus of Hadrian, Metcalf 298, Uncertain Mint A, as pointed out by Wolfram Weiser in a note in the Münzzentrum-Rheinland catalogue from which I got the coin.


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: slokind on October 12, 2007, 01:33:21 am
That portrait of Hadrian on the denarius with crescent-and-stars reverse is the most memorable one (to my taste) that is have seen.  That is as wonderful as it is rare.  Pat L.


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: ROMA on October 12, 2007, 07:49:07 pm
Great thread, and beast your collection of Hadrian alone is very impressive!


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: Beast on October 12, 2007, 07:54:44 pm
Thanks Roma! I'm still learning quite a lot about the different styles with input from Curtis, Barry and Michael Kelly. Metcalf's reference for Hadrian's Cistophoric Tetradrachms is also helpful so I can put the coins side by side with the plates and attempt to match up mints. I've always been fond of Hadrian's issues, since there are so many different types and the two excellent travel series.

--Beast


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: curtislclay on March 05, 2008, 08:04:49 pm
This newly acquired Eastern denarius was previously unknown (2.88 g, 6h, illustrated below):

HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS P P, head laureate r.

P M TR P COS III, Minerva, helmeted and with aegis on her breast, sacrificing l. from patera over candelabrum-like altar and holding spear.

Copied from a Rome-mint denarius of c. 119-125, using a longer obv. legend, also illustrated below.

This older Roman rev. legend P M TR P COS III is rather rare on Eastern denarii.

The only common one is with rev. Aequitas standing, with legend COS III the commonest Eastern type of all, and perhaps the first one struck, in close to Roman style, as I suggested above.  Same type with P M TR P COS III: Strack *59, listing 12 spec. with various bust types.

Apart from Aequitas, Strack knew six Eastern types with legend P M TR P COS III, each of them in a single specimen only.

One, like mine, is an exact copy of a Roman denarius type with the same rev. legend, Mars advancing r., Strack *21.  This piece is illustrated in my first post above, because it shares its HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS obv. die with my ROMA FELIX COS III P P coin.

Four Eastern denarii, though using the old rev. legend P M TR P COS III, join it with types copied from more recent Roman issues, whose original rev. legend was generally COS III.  Types: 

Modius and six wheat ears, Strack *72.

Minerva standing r. resting l. hand on shield set on ground, Strack *70.

Liberalitas emptying cornucopia, Strack *60.

(probably) Roma seated l. on cuirass and shield, Strack *22.

The final Eastern denarius with rev. legend P M TR P COS III copies a rev. type of Trajan's, Jupiter holds thunderbolt over emperor, Strack *71.








Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: curtislclay on August 23, 2008, 11:53:07 pm
Another novelty, which I acquired from Rauch 82, 23 April 2008, lot 16: this Eastern denarius of Hadrian copies the Wolf and Twins type of Domitian as Caesar, as is proved by the boat in exergue, which accompanied the Wolf and Twins type on coins only for Domitian. 

However, in addition to changing Domitian's COS V to COS III to fit Hadrian, the Eastern engraver also reversed the type for Hadrian; the wolf stands right not left.  He also changed the pose of the twins.  On Domitian's denarii and aurei they sit facing one another, both in profile, each raising one hand towards the she-wolf's teats.  On Hadrian's denarius they sit frontally, their legs crossed Indian-style, each raising both hands.  The twin on the left is clear, but the one on the right has largely fallen prey to a die break and can be seen only dimly.

Hadrian's portrait on this denarius is crude, which led to its being classified as a barbarous imitation ("Celtic") in the Rauch catalogue.  However, Strack illustrates two other Eastern denarii of Hadrian from the same obverse die, whose reverses show two well-known types from the series: COS III, Galley right, and COS III, Fortuna standing left holding rudder and cornucopia. See the scan below.  Susan Headley scanned the coin and the Strack images for me; the Domitian denarius is from CoinArchives.


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: curtislclay on August 24, 2008, 12:28:03 am
By chance, my search for "Domitian and Wolf" on CoinArchives also brought up another crude Eastern denarius of Hadrian with the Wolf and Twins reverse type, pictured below, that was in UBS 73, 3 Sept. 2007, lot 306.

Here the she-wolf stands left and the Twins sit facing one another in profile, as on the prototype of Domitian, so without the changes in these two details made on my new coin above.  Note the boat in exergue, again guaranteeing the Domitian denarius as prototype.

The style of the UBS coin is quite crude on both sides, again misleading the cataloguer to attribute it as "Celtic".  I think it must certainly also belong to Hadrian's Eastern series, though I do not know of this same obverse die being used with other known reverse types of that series.  We know from my new coin, after all, that Hadrian's Eastern engravers did copy the Wolf and Twins type of Domitian Caesar; and it can hardly be coincidence that the UBS coin copies the same type, considerably more faithfully, and combines it with the commonest legend combination of Hadrian's Eastern denarii, HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS P P / COS III.


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: curtislclay on November 24, 2009, 08:49:12 pm
I was able to acquire four rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian from Zach Beasley's sale of part of his collection in V-Auction 236, 5 Nov. 2009. These coins can all be seen on Zach's website and one of them he has also shown us above in this thread, but I want to post them again with a few comments about where the reverse types were taken from.

The first one has the commonest obverse legend HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS P P, but copies the earlier reverse legend P M TR P COS III and the LIB PVB, Libertas seated type from that issue, though eliminating the legend LIB PVB in exergue. This appears to be a new type in the Eastern series; I left it out in my list of Eastern denarii of Hadrian with rev. legend P M TR P COS III, earlier in this thread. Here is the coin, in the V-Auction image, and the Roman model from CoinArchives.


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: curtislclay on November 24, 2009, 09:27:58 pm
The second coin has the standard Eastern legends, HADRIANVS AVG P P on obv. and COS III on rev., but copies a LATER Roman reverse type, the Italia type of Hadrian's travel series, which at Rome was struck only with the descriptive legend ITALIA, and with Hadrian's later obv. legend, HADRIANVS AVG COS III P P. The Eastern copy and the Roman original are shown below.

The Eastern mint also copied this Italia type with the proper Roman legends on both sides, HADRIANVS AVG COS III P P / ITALIA, Strack *76, and with obv. HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS / ITALIA, Strack *24, and obv. HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS P P, rev. ITALIA FELIX, Strack *62.

These Eastern coins are important for showing that the ITALIA type, and the rest of Hadrian's travel series, must have been struck EARLY in Hadrian's large last issue with obv. legend HADRIANVS AVG COS III P P at Rome, which probably lasted from c. 132 to Hadrian's death in 138. It is clear that the Eastern series only barely overlapped with this last large issue at Rome; most of the Eastern types and legends are earlier, and only a small number of Eastern denarii copy the new Roman obverse legend and the new types that were struck at Rome with that legend. Then the Eastern series ended, apparently because Hadrian had returned to Rome c. 132. Thus only the earliest Roman rev. types of the HADRIANVS AVG COS III P P issue, those that were produced by c. 132, can have been copied by the Eastern mint.

My new denarius is Strack *33, cited by him from three specimens in the Paris collection. Cohen 396-7, in describing these coins, called Italia merely "a woman", and RIC 346 followed Cohen; it was apparently Strack who realized that she is actually Italia, copied from the Roman ITALIA type.


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: curtislclay on November 24, 2009, 09:41:38 pm
Third coin: the Asia type of Hadrian's travel series, copied in the East with the correct Roman legends on both sides, HADRIANVS AVG COS III P P / ASIA.

This coin is Strack *73, specimens in St. Petersburg, Naples, and the L.A. Lawrence Collection.

Same conclusion: the Travel series, since it was copied on Eastern denarii, must have been struck near the beginning of Hadrian's large last issue!


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: curtislclay on November 25, 2009, 12:22:44 pm
Fourth coin, the one Zach has already shown above: obverse HADRIANVS AVG COS III P P, reverse copies the Roman FORTVNA AVG type, Fortuna standing left holding patera and cornucopia, but changes the legend to the typical Eastern COS III. See the Eastern coin and Roman model below.

This coin is apparently unpublished, but a similar Eastern denarius with the correct Roman reverse legend, FORTVNA AVG, is known: Zach illustrates a specimen from his collection above.

This FORTVNA AVG type, we may conclude, must have been one of the earliest in the HADRIANVS AVG COS III P P issue at Rome. On aurei, that same FORTVNA AVG type shares an obverse die with ADVENTVI AVG ALEXANDRIAE, confirming the early date: for the ADVENTVI coins are part of the travel series, whose early date is likewise shown by the appearance of the same types on Eastern denarii, as we have seen above.

As Barry Murphy noted in his V-Auction description, the obverse die of my coin was also used with the reverse COS III, Fortuna standing left holding rudder and cornucopia, BMC pl. 71.1 (Paris).

Another, much finer, specimen with the same die link was in CNG 63, 2003, 1353, and is shown below from CoinArchives. The obverse die was in a fresher state for this coin than for mine, not showing for example the long die break that on my coin proceeds in a curving line from the emperor's neck, through his hair, and into the field above his forehead, ending at the A of AVG in the legend.


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: Rupert on February 12, 2010, 01:45:40 pm
This coin arrived at my place today - I had expected that several specialists would go for it and was pleasantly surprised to be the high bidder. This is an Eastern denarius with "moon and seven stars"reverse from the same dies as Curtis' specimen with the rare transposed obv. legend. I think it's worth showing here although it doesn't match Curtis' specimen in condition.

Rupert


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: OldMoney on February 15, 2010, 03:59:50 am
Hello Curtis,
Thank you for this great post.
One thing you mentioned causes me to ask a question that may not yet have an answer.
It relates to your mention of the possibility of a mint in Asia Minor. With my own fondness
for the city of Ephesus, that also being a city that struck cistophori, I wondered whether
you had had any additional thoughts about any of these denarii being struck there?
I'd love to hear your current thoughts on this, if you would be so kind as to offer them.
Best wishes,

Walter Holt


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: curtislclay on April 15, 2010, 05:35:26 pm
Walter,

I haven't gotten to the point where I am looking for stylistic parallels and trying to figure out where the denarii might have been struck!

Curtis


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: maridvnvm on September 09, 2010, 05:58:03 am
Curtis,
I hope that you don't mind me adding a coin of my own to the thread.

Obv:- HADRIANVS AVGSTVS (sic) P P, Laureate, draped and cuirassed bust right
Rev:- P M TR P COS III, Minerva standing right holding inverted spear in right hand, resting left hand on shield

I haven't been able to find any other example of this variety elsewhere but my literature covering this topic is lamentable.

Attached below.

It seems to copy the HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS P P, COS III, type (RIC 330) from Rome.

Obverse die match to the following example on Zach's website:-

(http://www.beastcoins.com/RomanImperial/II/Hadrian/Hadrian-NIR-PMTrPCosIII-Genius-Eastern.jpg)

Regards,
Martin

(CLICK IMAGE TO ENLARGE)


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: curtislclay on September 19, 2010, 07:08:29 pm
Martin,

Thanks for your interesting additions!

This obv. die with the omitted letter in Hadrian's name seems to have been unknown to Strack. Not mentioned in his catalogue, nor illustrated on his three plates of Eastern denarii of Hadrian, one devoted to obv. die links between different rev. types, showing that he had assembled plaster casts of most of the specimens known to him and had inspected the casts carefully!

Yes, your reverse type seems to be copied from RIC 330 at Rome, illustrated below. It's strange that the Eastern mint apparently changed the rev. legend from COS III, the current legend at Rome when the Eastern series started and which it usually took over, to the obsolete P M TR P COS III which had been used at Rome 5-10 years earlier. More usually the mint made the opposite change: copied a P M TR P COS III rev. type from the older Roman coins, but changed the rev. legend to the current COS III ! But there are other examples, listed in my Reply 14 above, of the Eastern mint copying a COS III type from Rome but altering its legend to P M TR P COS III.

As to the Bonus Eventus type on the die-linked denarius you show from Zach's site, both its type and its legend were apparently copied from Roman denarii of that earlier P M TR P COS III issue, like the second piece illustrated below.


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: maridvnvm on November 29, 2010, 10:07:24 am
Another coin that I take to be an eastern mint example:-

Denarius
Obv:- HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS P, Bare head right
Rev:- COS III, Minerva standing left, holding thunderbolt & scepter, shield at feet to right
Reference:– cf. BMCRE p. 379, 15.

Regards,
Martin


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: curtislclay on November 29, 2010, 01:51:44 pm
Strack *35, citing Pais only with this bust, ill. pl. XIX, different dies. No other die links for your obv. or rev. in Strack's plates either, that I could find.

Does your coin have the faulty legend HADRIANVS - AVGVSTVS P instead of the correct P P, making it a new variety? Strack records no obverse dies with just P.

Your coin has the same rev. type as mine shown above in the second post of the thread, there with obv. AVGVSTVS - HADRIANVS.


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: maridvnvm on November 29, 2010, 02:08:27 pm
Curtis,
I cannot see another P though it could just be clogged.

I did a little looking around and found another coin with an apparent P only instead of P P. Same reverse type as my example but with slight drapery on the bust.

(http://www.forumancientcoins.com/Coins/14684q00.jpg)

This coin from the Forum Sold coins.

http://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/roman-and-greek-coins.asp?param=14684q00.jpg&vpar=412&zpg=12894 (http://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/roman-and-greek-coins.asp?param=14684q00.jpg&vpar=412&zpg=12894)

Regards,
Martin


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: curtislclay on November 29, 2010, 02:11:29 pm
Evidence for Hadrian just Pater, so he and Sabina produced a son after all? ;D


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: OldMoney on November 30, 2010, 01:12:46 am
Dear Curtis,
Adding to your notes I have just picked up this one, after recognising it as being something other than the "Rome" mint product it was identified as.

It was described thus:
HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS PP
Laureate bust right

P M TR P - COS III
Pax seated left

Weight: 3.21g; 6h.

I believe it to be eastern and hope you may be able to confirm it.

I also see, in relation to my earlier question (above), that Lanz has another (different) denarius in his upcoming auction described as "Ephesos (?)", it would be nice (for me!) if that can somehow be established some time. Does anyone know of any recent, or perhaps upcoming, research about this
matter?

Walter Holt


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: curtislclay on November 30, 2010, 12:46:02 pm
Walter,

Yes, that denarius too is Eastern: from the same dies as mine ex Beasley in Reply 17 above.

Lanz's piece is Eastern too, but there is no evidence for his attribution "Ephesos?". It would have been more prudent to write "Uncertain Mint in Asia Minor".


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: OldMoney on December 02, 2010, 06:50:49 pm
Thanks Curtis,
Initially I did perform a visual search for this item within these pages, but then
dismissed them as all being different. The wear and toning, and perhaps even
the lighting of my image, all conspired to lead me away from the piece you point
out as being the same - which, upon closer inspection, it clearly is. It is so very
obvious when you point it out. Thank you.

Have you found any additional specimens since your above post, and would it be
improper to consider this the second (third, +??) known specimen? Oh, and thanks
for pointing out the correct identification of the reverse figure.

When I saw the Lanz description my hopes were raised that some new information
(article, etc.) had been released of which I was unaware. I think there is some
agreement that there are some similarities between many of these denarii and the
cistophori of Asia Minor. This may lead toward the suggestion, perhaps even a loose
conclusion, that they could have been (were?) struck at the same mint or mints. But
the question remains as to which mint or mints, or even if they were struck at same
time at those same mint(s), and not just somewhere nearby in both time and place.

I love this stuff. Wish I had more to go on.
Thanks for your help Curtis.

Walter Holt


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: skillz1 on December 04, 2010, 05:45:01 am
Hi,

I came acros this coin today. I have almost no clue about ancient coins (i think i can vaguely distunguish fakes) so i looked the type up and found that the closest match was the one Curtis posted above. I would apreciate any type of comment.

Thanks,

Calin


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: curtislclay on December 04, 2010, 04:29:21 pm
Your coin is of Roman style, so it is not an Eastern issue copying Roman types, of the sort treated here.


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: Rupert on December 05, 2010, 02:44:55 am
Hello Calin,

you are absolutely right in that the type is the same as of the first coin Curtis posted on page 1, but the style of the coin shows that yours is an "usual" specimen from the mint of Rome, not the auxiliary Eastern mint of Hadrian.

Best regards,

Rupert


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: Rupert on March 10, 2011, 02:56:35 pm
Here's a coin that I got just today; when I bought it on Ebay some days ago I thought I had acquired a nice barbarian, but in hand it looks like a typical Eastern mint denarius to me.

Denarius, Hadrian, Eastern mint
Obv. HADRIANUS - AUGUSTUS PP
Laureate head right
Rev. COS - III
Modius with corn-ears
19 mm, 2.98 g, die axis 6 o'clock
RIC 353fn. (353 is from Rome mint, the footnote points to a specimen in BM in Eastern style)

Best regards,

Rupert


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: curtislclay on March 10, 2011, 08:43:32 pm
Yes, certainly Eastern, Strack *52 (Paris, BM).

No die links I could find to the many Eastern denarii illustrated by Strack, including the two pieces of this type.


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: Rupert on March 11, 2011, 03:54:55 pm
Thank you Curtis! For the sake of completeness, here's my other recently acquired Eastern denarius:

Denarius, Hadrian, Eastern mint
Obv. HADRIANUS - AUGUSTUS PP
Laureate head right
Rev. COS - III
Eagle with half-spread wings standing left on a split ground line (or is this meant to be a thunderbolt?), looking back
19 mm, 2.92 g, die axis 6 o'clock
RIC 350 (for Rome mint)

Rupert


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: maridvnvm on July 09, 2011, 03:42:05 am
I have just received another coin that I think relevant to this thread.

I believe that the obverse die is that same as in the second post by Curtis early in this thread. The reverse also has the legends reversed in the same manner as the obverse.

Obv:- HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS, laureate head right with slight drapery on far shoulder (Legend reversed as AVGVSTVS HADRIANVS)
Rev:- COS III, Victory standing right holding wreath and palm (Legend reversed as III COS)

Regards,
Martin


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: curtislclay on July 12, 2011, 07:08:42 pm
Interesting. Apparently a new rev. type on the Eastern denarii, of uncertain origin.

That's admittedly a fairly standard Victory advancing right rev. type, but I find no such type on any denarius of Hadrian from the mint of Rome, nor on his Asian cistophori.

A similar type does occur on Hadrian's silver quinarii, and on a rather scarce denarius of Trajan struck in 112 (picture below), but these seem unlikely sources for a type on Hadrian's Eastern denarii.

Moreover on the Roman coins Victory grasps the stem of the palm over her shoulder in her left fist, thumb upwards, whereas on the Eastern denarius she palms the stem, holding it with her downwards pointing thumb while apparently keeping her fingers extended. I imagine that this detail may go back to the source copied, since it seems unlikely that the engraver changed it on his own whim.


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: maridvnvm on July 13, 2011, 12:28:12 pm
Many thanks for the great response Curtis. I had been ploughing methodically through my references trying to find an equivalent Rome type and had seen the similar type on Hadrian's silver quinarii but hadn't gone back to Trajan. The minor differences of walking vs. standing and the orientation of the hand holding the palm had completely passed me by and I thank you greatly for pointing them out.

I was wondering if the odd reverse legend arrangement of "III COS" matching the reversed obverse legend was also unusual for this issue.

As you say "a fairly standard Victory advancing right rev. type" but with some added interest.
Regards,
Martin


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: Rupert on November 27, 2011, 06:09:06 am
I got a beautiful Hadrian denarius these days which, I think, also belongs to this Eastern series of Hadrian. I could not find this type in RIC, and I don't have the Strack. But the style and lettering, especially on the reverse, led me to think this is not a Rome mint product.

Hadrian, Denarius
Obv. HADRIANUS - AUGUSTUS
Laureate, cuirassed bust right
Rev. COS - III
Aequitas standing left with scales and cornucopiae
17.5 mm, 2.94 g, die axis 6 o'clock

Best regards,

Rupert


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: curtislclay on November 27, 2011, 05:21:52 pm
Rupert,

COS III Aequitas standing is the commonest rev. type of this issue of Eastern denarii, but normally with obv. legend HADRIANVS - AVGVSTVS P P.

Without P P on obv., Strack *12, pl. XX, found only one specimen, in Vienna, with head laureate r. and from a different rev. die than yours.

Laur. cuir. seen from front is a rare bust type in the issue: Strack found only one such denarius, in Sofia, with P P on obv. and rev. FORT RED COS III, Fortuna seated.

Plus one with head bare, cuir. seen from front, in Berlin, also with P P on obv. and rev. COS III, Galley r.



Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: Rupert on November 28, 2011, 03:50:26 pm
Thank you very much Curtis! So it's an unspectacular reverse, but the obverse with a rare bust, a rare legend, and a hitherto unknown combination.
Wow, ancient numismatics are a jigsaw puzzle with 3 million pieces (conservative estimate), and every now and then you manage to turn up one that's not been seen, or noticed, by anyone in the last 2,000 years. That's truly addictive.

Rupert


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: maridvnvm on February 13, 2012, 06:27:50 am
I have acquired another coin as an addition to this thread.

Obv:- HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS, Bare headed, draped and cuirassed bust right, seen from the rear
Rev:- COS III, Mars walking right holding spear and trophy

I must admit to have gone out on a limb with this one basing it as an eastern mint example based on the somewhat unusual styling.

Thoughts? Comments?

Martin


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: curtislclay on February 14, 2012, 07:23:33 pm
Yes, clearly Eastern style, the lettering in particular is typical.

Strack *13, pl. XX, has this rev. type in the rare HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS issue, citing a denarius in Paris with bare-headed, draped bust r., not draped and cuirassed like yours. The same rev. type also occurs on Eastern denarii with the normal obv. legend H A P P.

Strack doesn't record your exact obverse with any other rev. type in this H A issue either. However, I have two Eastern denarii with the same obv. type, but from a different obv. die, coupled with two other COS III rev. types.

Rev. seems to be copied from a slightly earlier Hadrianic denarius, as below. That was also a common rev. type on late denarii of Trajan.


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: maridvnvm on February 15, 2012, 05:42:15 am
Many thanks Curtis.
I was a little thrown by the bust type as I hadn't seen this particular variation before for Hadrian. The style of the lettering was my first indication that it was eastern though I must admit I wasn't 100% certain but am certainly learning to spot them.
What are the other reverse that you have with the similar bust? (just out of pure curiosity, if you don't mind me being cheeky enough to ask...)
Regards,
Martin


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: curtislclay on February 15, 2012, 08:10:25 am
The one I can immediately find has rev. II - I - COS, Victory advancing r., from the same rev. die as your AVGVSTVS - HADRIANVS coin above (Reply #40)!


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: Rupert on May 26, 2012, 07:02:05 am
Here's an early Eastern (Antioch) denarius of Hadrian that I got recently, unfortunately in quite mediocre condition. It has the typical PM TR POTES reverse legend, a cuirassed bust seen from front, and an Aequitas reverse. Weight is 2.93 g, max. diameter 18.5 mm, and die axis 6 o'clock.

Rupert


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: maridvnvm on August 05, 2012, 02:20:11 pm
I bought the following coin on the basis that it is Eastern (it was sold as Rome mint) and is the common HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS P P, COS III, Aequitas mentioned by Curtis above.

The style is pretty good but doesn't seem to have the refinement of the Rome output, particularly the legends.

Hadrian Denarius
Obv:- HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS P P, laureate bust right
Rev:- COS III, Aequitas standing left, holding scales and cornucopia
Eastern Mint.

Martin

[CLICK TO ENLARGE]


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: maridvnvm on December 03, 2012, 07:54:07 am
I missed out on this one recently and hoped it would turn up here. It hasn't and so I thought it worth noting.

Martin


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: maridvnvm on February 18, 2013, 12:23:03 pm
What about this little oddity? Am I correct in attributing it to the eastern mints?

Hadrian Denarius
Obv:- HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS P P, laureate bust right
Rev:- COS III, Genius, draped at waist, standing left, holding patera and cornucopia

The Rome mint examples that are closest to the reverse all have an altar. The style of this looks a bit off for Rome. The lettering and lack of altar make me think it might just be eastern.

It could just as easily be one that I have missed elsewhere or something completely different.

Regards,
Martin

[CLICK IMAGE TO ENLARGE]


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: curtislclay on February 18, 2013, 06:10:34 pm
Martin,

I don't doubt the Genius coin is Eastern, though I don't find that obv. die among the many illustrated by Strack.

The letter forms are typical, for example P P at end of obv. legend tending to look like I I, and the slanting S of COS on the reverse. The slightly clumsy style of the types is also typical.

As you say,the Roman model showed an altar before the Genius. Eastern specimens are known accurately copying that type, with altar, Strack *31. Both the Roman model and the Eastern copy with altar are already illustrated above on p. 2 of this thread. Yours is a new variant, with altar omitted.

As to your 5 Aug. 2012 Aequitas coin, yes, also Eastern. The style is clearly non-Roman.

I suspect that all of the P P / COS III Aequitas coins are Eastern, even when the style is Roman. The Eastern mint will have started by borrowing one or more engravers from the mint of Rome, who then trained local staff, before themselves returning to Rome or otherwise retiring. So the style started as exactly Roman, created by Rome-mint engravers, then evolved into provincial style. The Aequitas-Moneta type was appropriate for a monetary innovation, assuring the users that Roman fineness and weight was being strictly maintained! The same phenomenon repeated itself, presumably for the same reason, in Gordian III's second Antioch series of 242-244: the earliest coins are in Rome-mint style and use the Rome-mint draped and cuirassed bust, while the much larger later series uses a cuirassed bust, never found on Rome-mint antoniniani, and is in sloppier style.

The coin below, which I missed a few days ago on eBay, confirms this idea of mine. The style is good enough to be considered Roman, but the rev. legend has been changed from COS III to P M TR P COS III, the form that was used at Rome only from 119 until c. 125. This form could easily have been revived at the Eastern mint after 128, and a number of the Eastern coins shown above prove that it was indeed revived; but such a revival is very unlikely to have occurred at Rome. This coin must be Eastern, despite its Roman style. This P M TR P COS III Aequitas denarius was already known to Strack *59 (12 spec.), correctly classified as Eastern, but I hadn't really been aware of it until this eBay specimen that I missed turned up.


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: maridvnvm on February 19, 2013, 03:11:18 pm
Many thanks Curtis. I am glad that my eyes did not fail me with these. I was fairly sure with the Aequitas/Moneta and more so with the Genius but there was always a shadow of doubt in the back of the mind.

I saw the Aequitas example you illustrate and had put it as Rome based on the good style of the bust but I guess that just shows how difficult this area can be.
Regards,
Martin


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: Rupert on December 04, 2013, 02:50:46 pm
Recently, I got this low-grade denarius RIC 85fn, but with a well-visible aegis. Weight 2.88 g, die axis 6 o'clock.

Best regards,

Rupert


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: maridvnvm on December 18, 2013, 01:38:00 pm
Another addition to this thread.

Hadrian Denarius
Obv:- HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS P P bare head right
Rev:- COS III, Virtus,standing right, holding scepter and parazonium; left foot raised, resting on helmet.
Unknown Eastern Mint. Bust style is very well executed.
Reference:- RIC -, cf RSC 355, cf BMC Page 380 #25 (Vienna) (draped bare head bust right) same reverse die though the image is very grainy

Regards,
Martin


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: curtislclay on December 19, 2013, 06:06:50 pm
This Virtus/Roma rev. type copied from Rome-mint denarii of c. 125-8 AD:


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: Rupert on February 02, 2014, 02:27:43 pm
And now it's me again with a coin I got these days. It seems that I was the only one to notice this was an Eastern denarius.

Obv. HADRIANUS - AUGUSTUS PP
Laureate and draped bust right
Rev. PMTR - P - COS III
Victory standing right with trophy in both hands
19 mm, 2.99 g, die axis 5 o'clock

The reverse type is copied from RIC 101, but this is described in RIC as "Victory flying", while here she has a clear ground line under her feet. Also, RIC 101 has the earlier obv. legend IMP CAESAR TRAIAN HADRIANUS AUG.

Rupert


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: curtislclay on February 02, 2014, 03:19:44 pm
A neat combination of rare bust type and new reverse type for the series!

The ground line on the reverse is apparently an addition of the Eastern engraver. At Rome there was no ground line, and Victory was evidently meant to be depicted flying.



Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: Rupert on February 03, 2014, 10:20:27 am
Now that's a flying Victory! The Eastern engraver played it safe: He retained Victory's spread wings but added a ground line because - well, you never know when you might need some ground beneath your feet!

Rupert


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: maridvnvm on August 11, 2014, 12:02:06 pm
What about this recent addition?

Hadrian Denarius
Obv:- HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS P (sic), Laureate head right
Rev:- COS III, Concordia standing left sacrificing over altar and holding cornucopia. (would this be the correct deity description as I am unable to find something similar)

Dark toned silver with some surface encrustations that I am contemtplating working on.

Martin


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: quadrans on August 11, 2014, 12:50:57 pm
Hi all

After reading this very interesting discussion..
I hesitating to tell my opinion because I'm not the professional this fiel..
but I try to ask you?
I have some Hadrianus denar in my Hadrianus Gallery and more in my Collection ..

maybe some of them are eastern mint like this :

http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-103871

Am I right ???

Thank you your response .

 Best regards
 Q.


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: maridvnvm on September 18, 2014, 01:55:24 pm
Another new one for me.

Obv:- HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS P P, Laureate head right
Rev:- COS III, Crescent with five stars. .
Minted in Eastern mint
Reference:- RIC 357 corr. (wrongly attributed to Rome) Cohen 464. BMCRE p. 380 #28 (different dies)


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on December 09, 2014, 01:56:49 pm
Very Nice specimins here i hope one day i'll find one. Eastern mint.
Hadrian collector here.

All the best,

Eric


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on January 21, 2015, 06:18:33 am
Hello Curtis and Rest.

i think i found a Antioch Mint Issue

Reference.

RIC III -; BMCRE pg. 378, 3, pl. 68, 4); RSC 1179b.

Hadrian Denarius,

Obv.: IMP CAESAR TRAIAN HADRIANVS AVG.
Laureate, cuirassed bust right, aegis on left shoulder

Rev.: P M TR P [OT_ES] COS III. OT_ES?
Aequitas standing left with scales & cornucopaie

3.4 gr

close on RIC 80

all the best,

Eric


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on January 31, 2015, 03:06:18 pm
Hello coinfriends,

Can any one confirm this is Antioch?
and the reference is ok?

Best wishes,

Eric


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: Rupert on January 31, 2015, 04:09:30 pm
I would rather assume Caesarea. Have a look at the early hemidrachms of Hadrian, the portrait style is quite exactly the same.

Rupert


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: curtislclay on January 31, 2015, 04:22:20 pm
I would rather assume Caesarea. Have a look at the early hemidrachms of Hadrian, the portrait style is quite exactly the same.

An interesting observation, maybe new?

Certainly it would have been new to David Walker, who wrote in 1977:

"The first series [of Hadrianic denarii struck at mints other than Rome]...is assigned to Antioch on grounds of style, which is indeed very similar to that of the tetradrachms struck at that city " (Metrology of Roman Silver Coinage II, p. 57).


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: Rupert on January 31, 2015, 05:08:59 pm
Just some days ago this coin was sold (not to me) on Fleabay, assigned by the seller (Lanz) to Caesarea. Of course, I cannot say how safe this attribution is, but I find the style very similar to these early Eastern denarii. What do you think of it?

Rupert


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: curtislclay on January 31, 2015, 06:15:19 pm
McAlee also attributes the denarii to Antioch, and illustrates a denarius and a tetradrachm of Antioch with virtually identical portraits.

But the Caesarean portraits are similar too, as you point out. Were the same engravers working for both Antioch and Caesarea during these years?


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on February 01, 2015, 03:33:03 am
yes the nose looks very similar, at first i was thinking there is something wrong with this coin.
thank you on your comments.
i have added a bit sharper picture.

all the best,

Eric


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on August 26, 2015, 07:46:53 am
Hadrian Denarius Antioch or Caesarea ? 119-22 AD Fortuna standing
Reference.
RIC II, --; BMCRE --; RSC --; RSC 1179e; Strack *11;

Obv. IMP CAESAR TRAIAN HADRIANVS AVG
Laureate, cuirassed bust right, aegis on left shoulder


Rev. PM TR POTES III COS III
Fortuna standing left, holding rudder and cornucopia

3.08 gr
18 mm



Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on October 09, 2015, 02:42:03 pm
I got a beautiful Hadrian denarius these days which, I think, also belongs to this Eastern series of Hadrian. I could not find this type in RIC, and I don't have the Strack. But the style and lettering, especially on the reverse, led me to think this is not a Rome mint product.

Hadrian, Denarius
Obv. HADRIANUS - AUGUSTUS
Laureate, cuirassed bust right
Rev. COS - III
Aequitas standing left with scales and cornucopiae
17.5 mm, 2.94 g, die axis 6 o'clock

Best regards,

Rupert

Hello Rupert and Curtis,

i have won a similar coin, maybe same die as Strack?
Laureate head right, far shoulder draped
mine
18x19 mm
3.31 gr


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: curtislclay on October 09, 2015, 03:18:32 pm
Eric,

Nice acquisition!

Same obv. die, I think, as the coin shown above by Maridunum on 3 Dec. 2012, with rev. III - COS, Fortuna standing.

So your obv. too must have just HADRIANVS - AVGVSTVS, no P P, and a fold of cloak on the emperor's front shoulder and maybe also behind his neck.


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on October 09, 2015, 03:53:51 pm
Hello Curtis,

thank you, its the same die indeed.


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on October 21, 2015, 12:57:39 pm
also eastern mint?

Hadrian Denarius Roma 128-32 AD Aequitas standing
Reference.
RIC 339. C 382. BMC 1035.

Obv. HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS P P
Laureate head right.

Rev. COS III
Aequitas standing l. holding scales and cornucopiae.

3.41 gr
18.5 mm.

http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-119310


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: curtislclay on October 21, 2015, 01:09:03 pm
The style is near Roman, but I suspect all Aequitas denarii of Hadrian are Eastern.

See my explanation on p. 3 above of this thread.


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on October 21, 2015, 01:35:08 pm
thank you very much.


all the best,

Eric


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on October 22, 2015, 02:15:08 pm
Reference.
RIC-; BMCR - ;  Strack-; RSC-

Obv. HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS PP
Laureate bust right.

Rev. COS III
Concordia seated left holding patera in right hand, left elbow resting on statue of Spes.

3.20 gr
17.3 mm
6 h

also i see like here seated on normal chair, mostly Concordia on Throne.




Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on November 20, 2015, 04:40:03 pm
Reference.
Strack *74, pl. XX; cf. RIC 245

Obv. HADRIANVS-AVG COS III P P
Bare head right

Rev. FORTV_NA AVG
Fortuna standing facing, head left, patera in right hand, cornucopiae in left

2.67 gr
18 mm


http://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=104535.new#new


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on November 25, 2015, 02:28:12 pm
Eric,

Nice acquisition!

Same obv. die, I think, as the coin shown above by Maridunum on 3 Dec. 2012, with rev. III - COS, Fortuna standing.

So your obv. too must have just HADRIANVS - AVGVSTVS, no P P, and a fold of cloak on the emperor's front shoulder and maybe also behind his neck.

Curtis,

#73
It think this coin is same dies, and maybe same coin?
As *12 strack plate XX

Must note that Strack saw this coin in W= Wien state mÜnzkabinett, so they would not sell there coins?

http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-123808



Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: curtislclay on November 25, 2015, 04:21:08 pm
Eric,

Museums do sometimes sell or trade away duplicates. Or occasionally museum coins can be stolen and so find their way onto the public market!

There is an innocent explanation, however, which could well apply to your coin. Strack might have mixed up his casts. He visited the Vienna collection in 1927 and 1930; but in 1930 he also visited a very rich private collection of Roman coins in Vienna, the Trau collection, which was dispersed five years later, in 1935, in a famous auction.

Now, Strack was apparently trying to collect plaster casts of every Eastern denarius of Hadrian that he came across. If he was making his own impressions and casts, he might have made impressions of the Eastern denarii in both the national collection and the Trau collection during that same Vienna trip in 1930. Your coin might be a Trau coin, but Strack got his batches mixed up and labeled his cast of your coin as coming from the national collection! Such a mix-up would of course be much less likely if Strack instead asked museums and collectors to make casts for him and send them to him by mail. I don't know which of these methods Strack used.

If your coin indeed belonged to Trau, it is not illustrated or individually described in the sale catalogue, so presumably formed part of lots 1174-6 in the sale: 50, 50, and 52 denarii of Hadrian respectively, in "good or very good" condition, which probably equates to "fine or very fine" today.


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on November 26, 2015, 10:41:50 am
Hello Curtis,

Thank you, the mixing up seems real i have no pedigree on my coin, we will never know i guess.
Strack is an interesting book, and German happens to be my 2e language, so lots of reading here






 


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on November 27, 2015, 02:35:02 pm
After checking this coin seeing no P P i must be something else.
it looks like Strack *14 but different dies.

Reference.
Strack *14; RIC cf 333; RSC 347L similar

Obv. HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS
bare bust right with drapery

Rev. COS III
Roma, helmeted, draped, seated left on cuirass and round shield, holding Victory in right hand and cornucopiae in left

2.8 gr
18 mm
12h



Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on December 04, 2015, 01:36:21 pm
An unknown variant obverse to Strack *31

Reference.
Strack *31; cf RIC 173 (no PP)

Obv. HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS P P
Bare head right.

Rev. COS III
Genius sacrificing left from patera over flaming altar, holding cornucopiae.

2.9 gr
18 mm

also specimen without altar, shown by Martin (maridvnvm) on Reply #52



Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on January 14, 2016, 12:04:24 pm
Reference.
Strack *36; cf RIC 331;

Obv. HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS P P
Head of Hadrian, laureate, right.

Rev. COS III
Minerva, helmeted, draped, advancing right, levelling javelin and holding shield

3.27 gr
19 mm



Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: Rupert on January 17, 2016, 11:36:43 am
After browsing the entire thread here I'm feeling all meshugge in my head and really don't know anymore whether this recently acquired Hadrian is actually Eastern. I thought it was, and the lettering of the COS III still looks Eastern to me, although the portrait is less different from the ones of Rome than many of those shown here.
If it should indeed not be Eastern, it's a normal RIC 161. Technical data: 18.5 mm, 3.28 g, die axis 6 o'clock (do these denarii all have a 6 o'clock die axis? My six specimens all do)

Rupert


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: curtislclay on January 18, 2016, 10:07:31 am
Rupert,

I would say Rome, judging mainly from style of portrait and lettering on obverse. These types definitely do occur at Rome, as you observed: BMC 361-366, one illustrated pl. 53.16.

As I stated earlier in this thread, I think the Eastern series started out with engravers from Rome. But all of the Rome-style Eastern denarii that I have seen so far have obv. legend HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS P P. None without that P P, as on your coin.

As to die axis, inverted seems to be predominant on Eastern denarii, but upright too occurs rarely.

Your five all inverted; and the same applies to the 20 in BMC. I have 63 Eastern denarii in my new collection: 61 inverted, 2 upright.

The inverted axis is predominant on Roman coins too, but upright occurs alongside inverted on some groups at Rome, namely those with legend form HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS / COS III P P and the Travel series with obv. legend HADRIANVS AVG COS III P P, i.e. c. 129-132 AD on my chronology. See Strack, pp. 21-23.

Thanks for bringing up the die axis question, which I hadn't paid attention to before!


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: Rupert on January 18, 2016, 10:26:38 am
Thanks for your feedback Curtis! Well if it's from Rome, I overpaid a little on it, but it's still a nice denarius. Then correct my figure of Eastern denarii with inverted die axis to five, please.

Rupert


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: curtislclay on January 18, 2016, 10:52:57 am
Done!

I also added five denarii to my total: purchases of the 1990s that I was forgetting about.


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on January 18, 2016, 11:58:49 am
interesting information, i'll check my eastern mint and add the missing information


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on January 30, 2016, 11:25:16 am
A Strack variant on the legend
*61 var (same obverse die as Strack *74)
2.73 gr
18 mm
8h.
More details
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-126853


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on February 02, 2016, 07:59:59 am
thinking about these Aegyptos coins is it real to think they were minted in Egypt Alexandria?


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: curtislclay on February 02, 2016, 12:39:55 pm
The rev. type is merely copied from Hadrian's travel series at Rome, so has no relevance to the mint of the coin, which is presumed to be in Asia Minor.


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on February 10, 2016, 08:18:48 am
i think i have here a variant on Strack *22 different obverse. (HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS) also *22 has no victory

Obv. IMP CAESAR TRAIAN HADRIANVS AVG
Laureate head right.

Rev. P M TR P COS III
Roma, helmeted, seated left on cuirass, Victory in right hand, spear in left.

2.96 gr
18 mm
7h


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: curtislclay on February 10, 2016, 08:29:32 am
Interesting, but not from Hadrian's normal Eastern series.

I don't know what it is.


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on February 10, 2016, 08:40:03 am
to me it looks a bit like the style from Cilicia Tarsus
http://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/search/advanced/?v=&i=&l_type=l_type_city&c_id-1=tarsus&p=&r=&c_type=c_type_person&person_id-1=Hadrian&reign=&yf=&yt=&mn=&pa=&a=&od_b=or&od=&oi=&rd_b=or&rd=&ri=&m=&d=&d2=&w=&w2=&s=&stype=advanced&search=Search

Soon coin in hand, i hope i can tell if it's a fouree it looks like copper is coming through


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on March 03, 2016, 01:08:58 pm
Hadrian, Denarius, Eastern Mint 128-32 AD Aequitas standing

Reference.
Strack *59 ; cf RIC 381; RSC 1121

Obv. HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS P P
Head of Hadrian, laureate, right

Rev. P M TR P COS III
Aequitas, draped, standing left, holding scales in right hand and cornucopiae in left

2.5 gr
19 mm
6h


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on March 03, 2016, 01:10:37 pm
to me it looks a bit like the style from Cilicia Tarsus
http://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/search/advanced/?v=&i=&l_type=l_type_city&c_id-1=tarsus&p=&r=&c_type=c_type_person&person_id-1=Hadrian&reign=&yf=&yt=&mn=&pa=&a=&od_b=or&od=&oi=&rd_b=or&rd=&ri=&m=&d=&d2=&w=&w2=&s=&stype=advanced&search=Search

Soon coin in hand, i hope i can tell if it's a fouree it looks like copper is coming through
its a Fouree


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on April 03, 2016, 02:04:10 pm
New variant
i cant find any reverence.

Hadrian Denarius unidentified Eastern Mint 134-38 AD Seven stars crescent

Reference.
RIC - . C. - . BMC - (cf. S. 380, 26-27 and Taf. 70, 4 und 6). Strack - (cf. Taf. XVIII, *50).

Obv: HADRIAИVS AVGVSTYS P. (SIC)
Laureate head right, draped on left shoulder.


Rev: COS III.
Seven stars within crescent.

3.03 gr
19 mm
h


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on April 04, 2016, 05:19:52 am
same Dies as Lanz 122 in 2002
https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=115580


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on April 24, 2016, 02:39:26 pm
Here an Eastern known in BMCRE but not known Strack with i do not understand.

i found 1 coin in acsearch also same die apparently one pair of die.
https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=822249

Reference.
RIC -; Strack-; BMCRE pg. 379, 22, pl. 69, 20 (same dies)

Obv. HADRIANVS AVG COS III P P,
Laureate head right

Rev. COS III
Genius standing left, sacrificing from patera over lighted altar, holding cornucopia in left arm.

2.57 gr
17 mm
h


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on June 12, 2016, 04:19:01 am
Hadrian Denarius 119-22 AD Minerva standing eastern mint
Reference. very rare
Strack *70; RIC--; C.--; BMCRE--

Obv. HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS P P
Laureate head right

Rev. P M TR P COS III
Minerva standing right holding inverted spear in right hand, resting left hand on shield.

2.94 gr
18 mm

same die as  Reply #24 from martin.
and same die pair as this coin

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=2200663


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on August 21, 2016, 12:54:42 pm
Hadrian Denarius 134-38 AD Roma and Hadrian standing vis-à-vis eastern mint

Reference.
cf. RIC 225;

Obv. HADRIANVS AVG COS III P P
Head of Hadrian, bare, right

Rev.ADVENTVS AVG
Roma, helmeted, in military dress, standing right, holding scepter in left hand and clasping hands with Hadrian on right, who stands left, togate, facing her

2.96 gr
17 mm
6h

my coin has scepter
2e coin from CNG, rome coin has spear


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: curtislclay on August 21, 2016, 01:45:25 pm
Interesting spear-scepter variation, but both coins are mint of Rome, in my opinion.


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on August 21, 2016, 01:48:36 pm
Curtis thank you very much, the portrait and snake like S on both sides made me think eastern.

Best,

Eric


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on August 22, 2016, 08:40:30 am
Curtis, there is a specimen of Adventus group AD 133, i asked for a picture on the nr 141, from mr. Abdy.
 
No   Den  Obv Head Reverse                                                                                                                     Ref
141. D      e    D1    [ADVENTVS] AVGVSTI; Roma stg r., holding shield and clasping hands with Hadrian, stg l.       Str.-; Man(Had.8)78


my coin above will be 140

No   Den  Obv Head Reverse                                                                                                                     Ref
140. D      a    A+   ADVENTVS AVG; Roma stg r., holding spear (?sceptre) and clasping hands with Hadrian, stg l.  Str.-; Savoca 9, lot 589(A1+)


best

eric


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on September 16, 2016, 01:33:47 pm
Reference.
Strack-; RIC-;

Obv. IMP CAESAR TRAIANV (sic)HADRIANVS AVG
Laureate, draped, cuirassed bust right, seen from rear

Rev. COS III
Eagle standing on thunderbolt, head turned left

2,79 gr
19 mm
6h



Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: curtislclay on September 18, 2016, 02:38:51 pm
Probably an ancient imitation, in my opinion.

The style seems quite different from that of Hadrian's Eastern denarii. Nor does any Eastern denarius of Hadrian from his Asia Minor series have that obverse legend. It only occurs on his earlier, Syrian issue, usually combined with rev. legends beginning PM TR POTES.


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on September 18, 2016, 11:46:24 pm
Curtis i see what you mean, thank you.


Best,

Eric


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on September 23, 2016, 02:59:55 pm
Curtis, there is a specimen of Adventus group AD 133, i asked for a picture on the nr 141, from mr. Abdy.
 
No   Den  Obv Head Reverse                                                                                                                     Ref
141. D      e    D1    [ADVENTVS] AVGVSTI; Roma stg r., holding shield and clasping hands with Hadrian, stg l.       Str.-; Man(Had.8)78


my coin above will be 140

No   Den  Obv Head Reverse                                                                                                                     Ref
140. D      a    A+   ADVENTVS AVG; Roma stg r., holding spear (?sceptre) and clasping hands with Hadrian, stg l.  Str.-; Savoca 9, lot 589(A1+)


best

eric

Here the picture with belongs to No. 141
with courtesy of Manchester Museum


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: curtislclay on September 23, 2016, 03:48:47 pm
I'll have to advise Richard Abdy to change that, since in my opinion those two coins have nothing to do with one another!

Yours is mint of Rome, despite the slightly sloppy lettering, as I said above.

The Manchester piece looks to me like either an ancient imitation or a modern counterfeit.

Thanks for getting the picture from Richard, in any case.


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on September 23, 2016, 04:08:32 pm
Thank you and you are welcome, i agree on the manchester coin, looks at least as an imitation like my last coin.

But i agree with Richard that my ADVENTVS is eastern
to be continued i hope.

Best wishes,

Eric


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on October 18, 2016, 01:10:24 pm
Hadrian Denarius 119-22 AD Minerva standing eastern mint
Reference. very rare
Strack *70; RIC--; C.--; BMCRE--

Obv. HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS P P
Laureate head right

Rev. P M TR P COS III
Minerva standing right holding inverted spear in right hand, resting left hand on shield.

2.94 gr
18 mm

same die as  Reply #24 from martin.
and same die pair as this coin

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=2200663

correction not in Strack


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on October 20, 2016, 01:39:18 pm
Hadrian Denarius 134-38 AD Tranquilitas standing Eastern mint
Reference.
Strack --; BMCRE --; cf RIC 367  C. --; NY. 1911.23.137

Obv HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS P P
Laureate bust right

Rev TRANQVILLITAS AVG COS III P P
Tranquilitas, draped, standing left, holding vertical sceptre in right hand, left hand at side, resting left arm on column.

3.44 gr
19 mm
6h

a copy of Roma mint RIC 367
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-123189


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on January 04, 2017, 06:47:25 am
Reference
Strack *43

Obv: HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS P P.
Laureate head right; draped left shoulder.

Rev: COS III.
Victory seated left, holding wreath and palm.

2.88 gr
20 mm
7h

a copy from Roma mint RIC 345
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-119306


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on February 20, 2017, 05:07:41 am
a variant on Strack *36 posted at #86

Reference.
Strack cf *36; cf RIC 331; (both legend P P missing)

Obv. HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS sic
Laureate, draped, cuirassed bust right, seen from rear

Rev. COS III
Minerva, helmeted, draped, advancing right, leveling javelin and holding shield

2.81 gr
19 mm


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on March 20, 2017, 06:01:13 pm
I have here i think an eastern mint Strack *41, this should be the copy Rome mint RIC II 333
i wonder if there is a Rome mint, i could not find it and BMCRE does give only this eastern mint like Strack does.
no Rome mint in BMCRE or Strack, or online

Hadrian Denarius 125-29 AD Roma Victrix Eastern mint
Reference.
Strack *41; BMC 1032 (for Rome mint RIC 333)

Obv. HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS P P
Laureate head right

Rev. COS III
Roma Victrix, helmeted, draped, seated left on cuirass and round shield, holding Victory in right hand and cornucopiae in left

2.89 gr
17 mm



Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: curtislclay on March 20, 2017, 08:09:34 pm
I find that rev. type only on sestertii of Hadrian, beginning before 128 with obv. HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS, and lasting after, with obv. HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS P P.

But we expect Eastern denarii to copy their rev. types from Roman denarii, not Roman bronze coins! This might suggest that the mint of Rome did strike this type on denarii as well as sestertii, and those denarii were copied by the Eastern mint, but they were so rare that they hardly ever turn up today, and they have not yet found their way into the standard catalogues.


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on April 15, 2017, 11:16:08 am
Reference.
Strack *17; (for Roma mint RIC 195)

Obv. HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS
Laureate bust right, with slight drapery

Rev. COS III (in ex)
Galley right with steersman and five rowers; curved stern Hortator, two sigma at stern

3.12 gr
19 mm
12h

Obverse die link with
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-135875


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on April 15, 2017, 11:20:46 am
Reference.
Helios 8, lot 436; RIC -; BMC -; RSC -. (for rome mint RIC II 182)

Obv. HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS
Laureate bust right, with slight drapery.

Rev. COS III
Nemesis-Victory standing right, crowning herself and holding long palm in other hand.

3.12 gr
18 mm
6h


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on October 25, 2017, 12:33:29 pm
Hadrian Denarius  134-38 AD Galley right Eastern Mint

Reference
Strack *55 (same die pair);Cohen 445.

Obv. HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS P P
Laureate head of Hadrian to right.

Rev. COS III
Galley with five oarsmen to right; at stern, arched cabin under a curved aplustre.

3.35 gr
19 mm
6h



Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: djmacdo on October 26, 2017, 06:05:10 am
Fascinating coins!


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on October 27, 2017, 03:40:41 am
Dear cf,

Here's a interesting eastern mint on Rome it would be Fortuna, here its Genius with rudder and cornucopiae.
Strack *30 is same reverse with Draped Fortuna.

Hadrian Denarius 134-38 AD Genius standing Eastern mint

Reference.
Strack *32 (same die pair)

Obv. HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS P P
Laureate head right

Rev. COS III
Genius standing front, head to left, holding rudder with her right hand and cornucopiae with her left

3.51 gr
18 mm
7h


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: maridvnvm on October 31, 2017, 03:28:18 am
The style on that last one is wonderful.


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on November 15, 2017, 09:54:16 am
Hadrian Denarius 128-32 AD Spes standing Eastern mint

Reference.
cfRIC 181; cfBMC 417; cfC. 390; cfStrack *15

Obv. HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS P P
Laureate bust right, drapery on left shoulder

Rev. COS - III
Spes advancing left, flower upward in right hand, raising skirt with left

3.27 gr
mm
h


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on December 15, 2017, 07:15:30 am
Reference
cf RIC 299; Strack --

Obv. HADRIANVS AVG COS III P P.
Laureate head right

Rev. AFRICA
Africa reclining left, wearing elephant-skin headdress and holding scorpion and cornucopia, basket of fruits at her feet

2.42 gr
20 mm
6h



Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: Steve P on December 15, 2017, 11:15:36 am
Oki => the scorpion is a total winner


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on December 22, 2017, 08:18:33 am
Hadrian Denarius 134-38 AD Pietas Eastern mint

Obv. HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS P P
Laureate head right

Rev. PIETAS AVGVSTI
Pietas seated left holding patera and scepter

3.3 gr
17 mm
6h

Discussed is this topic
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=112935.new#new


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on January 06, 2018, 04:46:43 am
Hadrian Denarius 117 AD Trajan and Hadrian standing vis-à-vis eastern mint

on Rome Mint Trajan or both would hold a volumen/rolls

Reference.
Strack *3; Paris 4616 same die pair as Strack=Paris

Obv. IMP CAES TRAIAN HADRIANO AVG DIVI TRA
Laureate, cuirassed bust right, baldric strap over shoulder and across chest, seen from front.

Rev. PARTHIC DIVI TRAIAN AVG F P M TR P COS P P ADOPTIO in exergue
Trajan holding with both hands, Hadrian's right hand; left hand on hip

2.73 gr
18 mm

Note.
This early series celebrates the adoption of Hadrian by Trajan, therefore legitimizing Hadrian's succession to the people.


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: Steve P on January 09, 2018, 03:36:08 pm
sweet

 +++

congrats, Oki


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on June 12, 2018, 04:11:43 am
Obv. RIC 390; Rev. RIC 276

Obv. SABINA AVGVSTA
Diademed and draped bust right

Rev. TELLVS STABIL
Tellus standing left, holding plough-handle and rake, two corn ears behind.

2.73 gr
19 mm
6h



Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on August 31, 2018, 01:10:11 am
Hadrian Denarius 125-28 AD Galley right Eastern Mint, with a new bust type

Reference.
Strack *17; (for Roma mint RIC 195)

Obv. HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS
Laureate, draped, and cuirassed bust right.

Rev. COS III
Galley right with steersman and five rowers; curved stern Hortator, two sigma at stern

3.28 gr
19 mm

Note.
Here the strap is dotted, normally it's with a thunderbolt on his cuirass leather strap


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: Steve P on August 31, 2018, 08:28:46 am
Wow => that's a beauty! (congrats, Oki)

 +++


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: curtislclay on August 31, 2018, 09:31:47 am
I have a worn specimen from the same dies, ex Agora E40, 2015, 161. Plus two others from the same obv. die, but with different rev. types: COS III Nude Mars advancing r., and COS III, Aequitas/Moneta standing l.

Thunderbolt on cuirass strap appears on some of Hadrian's bronze coins, as you recognized a year or two ago and showed us on Forvm. But that decoration has never been observed on his denarii or aurei, as far as I know. Here you have recognized a simpler decoration, a row of dots, which are also visible faintly on the best of my three specimens from the die.

You mean Hortator on curved prow not stern, right? That figure on bow looks more like a fighting Minerva than the director of the rowers. I had not really noticed this figure before!


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on August 31, 2018, 09:51:23 am
Thank you, for the extra information, on this obverse die, i could not find one on Rome and on eastern mints
 yes a the stern, seen on "many" eastern minted galleys, it can only be a Hortator in my opinion


thank you Steve


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on September 02, 2018, 11:53:43 am
Sabina Denarius 128-36 AD Minerva standing Eastern mint
Reference.
RIC--; Strack -- unpublished

Obv. SABINA AVGVSTA
Draped bust left.

Rev. COS III.
Minerva standing left, holding spear and thunderbolt; shield behind to right.

3.15 gr
20 mm

reverse known und strack *35 see Reply #26


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: Rupert on October 09, 2018, 01:52:32 pm
Last week I got this denarius from a German auction (haven't photographed it yet, the pictures are the seller's), which I think fits in here.

Denarius, Hadrian
Obv. HADRIANUS - AUGUSTUS PP
Laureate bust right with draped left shoulder
Rev. FIDES - AUG
Fides standing right with corn-ears and fruit platter (?)
18 mm, 3.09 g, die axis 6 o'clock

The obverse does not share its die with any of the denarii in this thread, the short and fluttering wreath-ties are unusual; most of the coins in this thread have longer, vertically hanging ties.

The reverse legend is known for Eastern antoniniani of Claudius II only according to Cohen, but RIC lists a possible Rome mint prototype with the same reverse figure as 241A. However, the legend in RIC is FIDES PUBLICA, and HADRIANUS AUG COS III PP on the obverse.

Rupert


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on October 09, 2018, 02:12:20 pm
it's was unknown to Strack, missed it, wonderful congrats

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=213910


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: Jay GT4 on October 09, 2018, 05:46:38 pm
Cool style


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: quadrans on October 17, 2018, 07:35:22 am
Interesting coin,  :) ;) +++

Q.


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on December 02, 2018, 12:22:52 pm
here we have a unlisted eastern a variant on, with same obverse die.
 http://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=39488.msg688709#msg688709


Hadrian Denarius 134-38 AD Fortuna standing Eastern mint
Reference.
cf Strack *32;

Obv. HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS P P
Laureate head right

Rev. COS III
Fortuna standing front, head to left, holding patera with her right hand and cornucopiae with her left

3.39 gr
18 mm


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: Rupert on December 02, 2018, 03:08:21 pm
Aha! So you didn't miss it this time. I had seen it. But I'm innocent, I didn't bid you up.


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on December 03, 2018, 12:45:15 am
Aha! So you didn't miss it this time. I had seen it. But I'm innocent, I didn't bid you up.
yes, Rupert,

can't have all goes for all of us.



Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on March 07, 2019, 11:16:14 am
Reference.
cfRIC 360;cf C 724; cf BMCRE 516; Strack 26*

Obv. HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS PP
Laureate, draped, cuirassed bust right

Rev. COS III, in Ex.FORT RED
Fortuna seated left, holding rudder on globe and cornucopia.

3.01 gr
18 mm


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: Rupert on March 07, 2019, 11:37:07 am
Unlike many of the Eastern denarii, this is a real beauty! Congrats!

Rupert


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on April 17, 2019, 10:55:45 am
Hadrian Denarius Antioch 119-22 AD Aequitas standing
Reference.
Strack *-- ; RIC II, --; BMCRE --; C. --; BMC --

Obv. IMP CAESAR TRAIAN HADRIANVS AVG
Laureate, cuirassed bust right, baldric strap over shoulder and across chest, seen from front

Rev. PM TR POTES III COS III
Aequitas standing left, holding scales and cornucopia

3.40 gr
17 mm


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on June 24, 2019, 09:01:51 am
Hadrian Denarius 125-28 AD Roma seated left Eastern Mint
Reference.
RIC II --; BMC --; C.--; Strack *-- cf (Taf. XIX, 40 und XX, 14).

Obv. HADRIANVS AVGVSTVS
Laureate, draped, and cuirassed bust right.

Rev. COS III
Roma seated left on curule chair holding Victory and sceptre

2.72 gr
17 mm


Note.
Same obverse die as #133


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: Rupert on June 24, 2019, 10:55:40 am
A real beauty, congratulations!

Rupert


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on June 25, 2019, 02:20:15 am
thank you Rupert


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: maridvnvm on July 05, 2019, 02:15:01 am
That last one is especially nice. Great find.


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on July 05, 2019, 02:17:43 am
That last one is especially nice. Great find.
Thank you Martin,

still new type out there


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: Rupert on July 07, 2019, 12:08:36 pm
This coin was sold today (not to me) for 1,007 Euros. :o

Why THAT much?

Rupert


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: okidoki on July 07, 2019, 12:16:26 pm
Reply #102 same die pair

http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-128422


Title: Re: Two rare Eastern denarii of Hadrian
Post by: Rupert on July 07, 2019, 12:49:02 pm
Okay, but since it is at least the third coin from these dies, it does not quite explain the price to me. I would have expected 300 to 400 Euro, but 1,000??