FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board
Numismatic and History Discussion Forums => History and Archeology => Topic started by: gavignano on July 07, 2007, 10:01:32 pm
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I posted this one thinking about who I might want to dine with to discusss a little ancient history with (first person source of course), but hey, if you want to post up someone because you think they are ddg (drop dead gorgeous) and like the romance, be my guest.......
I'm going to say someone who would be a predictable response, but I find this guy fascinating - Constantine the Great. We would talk about everything from the Milvian Bridge to Fausta (carefully) to the Christenization of the empire, to his last days, to......you get the picture.
My second choice - just going by the fetching portraits - Otacilia Severa or Julia Mamaea. I can be shallow at times ;D
Joe
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I'd really enjoy a conversation with Germanicus, despite the fact he never lived to become Emperor. I'd also like to talk with Antoninus Pius, partly because he's probably the only Emperor to really have the TIME to talk! :)
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I would probably have lunch with Augustus or Marcus Aurelius since they both were pretty bright and would have a lot to talk about.
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Yes, I think Marcus Aurelius would be a good choice!
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Since this is a kind of "thought experiment", I couldn't help thinking of practical terms in spite of myself.
To interact with a "real" roman emperor would be so terribly hard I think. Interact is the key word here.
His answers would depend a great deal on his perceptions of you, whether he be real or a construct.
If you controlled the situation just wanted a talking head and could make him "docile" and just a source of information, no problem.
For a real interaction, I speculate that first, you'd have to have command of the latin your emperor spoke. Romans were class conscious like almost no other people. You'd likely speak it with a "foreign" accent which would make the replies guarded or not get an answer at all. Your dress, demeanor, and that indefinable "air" you projected would be an important factor as well.
There was undoubtedly an accepted way to act around the emperor that has been lost to time. Not necessarily totally servile, but not as an equal either. The questions you asked would have to be carefully phrased and some could not be asked at all. Don't bring up Geta to Caracalla for instance.
Were you to ask about slavery to even the most, by modern standards "enlightened" emperor in a way that implied that it wasn't just a dandy thing would bring incomprehension or anger at your impudence.
I'm not sure that any modern would even know the proper way to address the emperor.
Things we moderns take for granted like scratching our chins while thinking might be offensive.
A phrase that started with "About the empress" might be a form of quick suicide.
So many things a modern would ask would be met with "Why in the name of Jupiter would you want to know that? Why do you want to know how coins are made? Everyone knows that. Guards!"
And the almost irresistable urge to tell the emperor of future events might get you labeled as a "soothsayer" which some emperors had killed and most detested.
A challenge to say the least.
Bruce
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Hadrian, and I would ask him what really was the fate of Antinous...among other sundry topics.
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On a politically calm and atmospherically clear day, I'd like to lunch with Galerius and Galeria in their lovely palace with its view of Mt. Olympus across the Gulf (which requires the clear day). I know nothing murderous about them*, and the place is lovely. At worst, they might not be scintillating, but even that is not something that I know. Pat L.
*The fate of Demetrios, I daresay, was not personal but policy.
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Julia Domna, for various reasons. Maybe Marcus Aurelius too, as an excuse to meet Faustina II...
LordBest. 8)
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Marcus Aurelius for lunch for sure, and Julia Domna for dinner and we might hangout ::)
Salem
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I think it would be interesting to see how much of the various rumors about Elagabalus are true ::)
Also, I think Severus Alexander would be interesting to talk to.
Andrew
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Antoninus Pius and Marcus Aurelius...for conversation...but for a good meal go with Vitellius. ;)
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I'd love to interview Marcus Aurelius and Julian II about the Stoic philosophies and the fortunes of war, something they were both well versed in.
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A. Gordian III to ask him for some of those nice medallions he had produced - and to ask him if he had any of his grandfathers denarii on him for swaps ;)
B. Caligula - to find out the truth about that chest bursting scene ;D
C. but it would be really Nerva (he lived throught some interesting times) 8)
Malcolm
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Hi!
I would like lunch with Diocletian! He was very intelligent; had humble beginnings, but reformed the empire as best he could. And he reitred!
Second, Claudius Gothicus. He was very well respected!
Third - Regalianus - (Did I spell that correctly?) I would ask him where his coins are hidden! ;D ;D
dpaul7
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I would like lunch with Diocletian! He was very intelligent; had humble beginnings, but reformed the empire as best he could. And he reitred!
rare indeed...What kind of man RETIRES from such a job :) It could certainly be that he was ill, still... most would cling on to power to the bitter end...his colleague of course was not of the same mind.
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Caracalla, for Plautilla to realise how smart I am 8), so she can leave him for me (but it might be dangerous....)
Regards
Potator
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I'd pick Nero. At least you know you would eat well. Might be your last meal ....
Steve
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Cleopatra isnt bad..... ;D ;D ;D
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Cleopatra isnt bad..... ;D ;D ;D
...if hook-noses are your thing ;)
I'd pick Augustus-It'd be very interesting to see his motivations and what made him tick.
As for later emperors Trajan or Hadrian would be good. Could bitch about the Parthians ;D
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Hook noses, especially on brunettes, are definately MY thing! Cleopatra for lunch (if such a thing was generally done), and Zenobia for dinner (apt to get very hungry in between meals though). I just pray they would be gentle! Fighting off the fantods, George Spradling
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Constantine would be an interesting meet.
Julian II, his story is pretty wild.
Theodosius I
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Maximinus Thrax (was he really 2,6m tall?) anyway, just because his personallity seems to be very interesting (a roman emperor who never saw Rome). He was also one of the eastern Europe emperors :D
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Vitellius. Didn't he keep an extraordinary table stocked with delicacies and in quantity? Who cares about his conversational skills, just enjoy the feast and the entertainment after!
How many dinners am I allowed?
Raymond
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Speaking of entertainment, I beleive it was Elagabalus who had a large amount of flowers fall from the rafters on his guests during a dinner, and came close to smothering them. I think I'll scratch Elagabalus from my list. Rule 36: Be careful having lunch with men or women who are cult high priests or priestesses - they may go overboard on the humor......
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It might be interesting to dine with Claudius, since he was an historian who had written books about Etruscan and Carthaginian history and probably knew a thing or two about recent Roman past.
I might give it a miss though, if mushrooms were on the menu, especially if they were being served by Agrippina.
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I would have like to have breakfast with Caligula (during the first 6 months of his reign). I would like to see the boy as "enlightened" and then compare him to the monster history records.
I would like to have lunch with Vespasian. It would be interesting to see if his sense of humor was as weird as history portrays it. (Quick as an asparagus!)
I would then liked to have dinner with Priscus Attalus. Not that he as a popular emperor or even a good one. No I would have dinner with him, just to meet the famous barbarian Alaric. I would love to see how civilized he was, and whether the title barbarian was justified or simply a smear.
I would like to have a snack or cup of tea with Romulus Augustus, and trade him a silver dollar for a coin of his.
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I would like to have lunch with Antoninus Pius--as long as swiss cheese isn't on the menu! ;)
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That's a tough question. I'm not sure I would have liked to meet most of the emperors. He isn't an emperor, but the public figure that would have qualified most for me was Marcus Junius Brutus.
As for emperors, perhaps one of the Adoptive emperors, Postumus, or even Carausius. I could find out what the silver "denarii" of Carausius really were..
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I'd probably go with Augustus or Trajan, both were wildly successful and not intimately documented in a manner free of progpanganda. It would be fascinating to meet the men behind the deeds. But if i could go with any Roman, I'd like to have talked with Sulla. The lack of information about him when he was obviously so important has always made him a figure of interest to me.
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Dinner, rather than lunch, with Nero ... I've read that his evening barbecues were well illuminated, plus the guy appears to have been a genuine barrel of laughs as long as you were on the right side of him, which of course would make the dinner engagement a little risky if not risque!
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A gin and tonic with Julian II might prove stimulating...
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But if i could go with any Roman, I'd like to have talked with Sulla. The lack of information about him when he was obviously so important has always made him a figure of interest to me.
I'd go with Sulla. I think he's the most complex of documented Roman leaders. The mixture of scandal, respect for his competency, disrespect for his atrocities, partician background, low-life associations, exercise of power, range of constitutional changes, military competence, wiliness, and the fact that he retired voluntarily after holding supreme power despite having it in his power to remain for life (which emperor has done that?). The fact that he remained well-regarded by history despite his proscriptions speaks volumes.
And of course the portrayal of the actor Chrysogonus and other dilettantes in Saylor's books suggest to me that dinner would be an amusing and unconventional affair,
I rely on this Uncyclopaedia entry for most of my factual information about Sulla: There's a nice Faustus Sulla denarius described as "A coin showing Jugurtha (left) surrendering to Sulla (seated centre), notice his bare chested slave girl opposite, dirty womaniser!"
http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Lucius_Cornelius_Sulla
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Well I would chose lunch with Gallienus and his empress Cornelia Salonina. It would be wonderful to have a long conversation with this most civilized, yet enigmatic emperor. I would ask him about the reasons for his leniency towards the Christians, the meanings of the images on many of his coins, why did he not make more effort to save his father and what type of world he would like the human race to inhabit.
Regards,
Steve
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That was a good read.
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I would love to have lunch with Faustina Sr and her husband Antonius Pius just to find out what they were really like not what history has painted them, especially Faustina, and to listen to their stories about their world. Imagine what it would be like to see the real person, or persons, and not just the images on bits of metal. ;D
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Marcus Aurelius for having some interesting talks, Nero for having fun ;D
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Lunch with Julian for sure.
Dinner with Messalina.
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Germanicus for sure. If he had lived a very different world would have emerged. He seemed reasonable and a nice guy. I also would love to ask him about his mixed loyalties being related to both Mark Antony and Augustus!
Of course I'd also love to go out on the town with Mark Antony...why he didn't send Cleopatra away and move north of Actium to block the Via Egnatia I'll never know!
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But if i could go with any Roman, I'd like to have talked with Sulla. The lack of information about him when he was obviously so important has always made him a figure of interest to me.
What I'd like to know is whether Caesar's refusal to punish his enemies was influenced by what happened when Sulla took Rome.
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What I'd like to know is whether Caesar's refusal to punish his enemies was influenced by what happened when Sulla took Rome.
It always struck me as the business-like pragmatism of someone who, like Sulla, understood what action was appropriate in the circumstances. The "whatever works best" mode of government, and absolutely nothing to do with kind hearts. Caesar fought a long civil war against an opposition who had some of the most famous names in the business of government. Only by repeated pardons of military opposition who then transferred to his side could he in the end isolate and weaken his principal enemies. Bear in mind the bulk of his pardons were before he defeated Pompey. Sulla was however facing more of an "enemy within" after he took control of Italy - there were few military enemies after the Colline gate but potentially many hidden political enemies. Pardons were a pretty useless tool against senators wearing togas and carrying no arms. Octavian in his long war with Antony was more in Caesar's situation. Pardons of military opposition such as that of Scarpus, whose forces and coinage switched from supporting Antony http://www.flickr.com/photos/ahala_rome/3352152734/ to supporting Octavian http://www.flickr.com/photos/ahala_rome/3840749094/ in the blink of an eyelid, were strategic rather than tactical, all with an eye to the long game. One couldn't renege on either the pardons or the pattern of behaviour without incurring the fate of Caesar himself.
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I'd like to have lunch with Jovian, for a number of reasons. To check if his coin portraits offer any likeness, was he really that tall as Ammianus Marcellin claims, to ask him what really went wrong with Julian's Persian war, what was Julian like, then to ask him what was Singidunum (his birthplace) like back then, and perhaps where to dig to find his family home.
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i think maybe Vespasian
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It always struck me as the business-like pragmatism of someone who, like Sulla, understood what action was appropriate in the circumstances... Pardons were a pretty useless tool against senators wearing togas and carrying no arms
If pragmatism was the way to go, then circumstances of the Social War would dictate a totally different behavior as Sulla did. The Foederati were providing the bulk of the Roman army and their force was basically equal to that of Rome itself. It might have been extremely wise to find some sort of accommodation in order to avoid a war that would likely put Rome itself into extreme danger and, in any case, weaken seriously Rome's military strength. Sulla reduced Italy to burning ashes instead. Maybe it was just his style (the good old Roman style, indeed)?
Regards, P. :)
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I think it would be interesting to sit down for a state dinner at Elagabalus' table (being ever mindful for the possible shower of rose petals ;) ) just to see if he thought himself the primarily emperor of Rome or a priest of Elagabal. I would also like to have lunch with Septimius Severus to see if the Punic accent really made him pronounce his name Sheptiush Sheverush or not...and I would just like to see Juila Domna and Julia Maesa in person...
Chris
PS Oh yeah! I would like to have dinner with the ghost of Valerian I just to ask him if he thought surrendering in person was still a good idea!
C.
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lol
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I'd like to have lunch with Caligula, and find out whether he really did think he was a god.
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I will be interested in having a lunch with wiser Emperors that have relatively longer experience in life and its unexpected twists..
A wise Emperor that can tell the story of his interesting life on a lunch table...
Maybe an Emperor that was pushed to be an Emperor... maybe Tiberius in his last days
Vespasian is also a good candidate...he said sarcastically as death approached
'I think I'm becoming a god!'...
Trajan is also a good candidate...
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I doubt any of the emperors of Rome would sit and discuss anything with the likes of us. However, if I could get a minute with one, I guess it would be Titus. I'd hit him up for a couple box seat tickets to the opening games of the colosseum. ;D
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I doubt any of the emperors of Rome would sit and discuss anything with the likes of us.
True enough under normal circumstances, but we can tell them how things turned out, which might interest them considerably!
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Vespasian and Titus! Man, I bet those two were a riot together, it would be fun to see how they interacted with each other. The food might be modest, but I bet the laughs and wine would be overflowing. I can also picture Domitian, sitting at the other end of the table, sullenly muttering to himself and being largely ignored. 8)
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Dinner with Marcus Aurelius...then a night on the town with Lucius Verus : that would probably be one to remember. Or not as the case may be.
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I doubt any of the emperors of Rome would sit and discuss anything with the likes of us. However, if I could get a minute with one, I guess it would be Titus. I'd hit him up for a couple box seat tickets to the opening games of the colosseum. ;D
I guess I'd see you there since this was exactly what I was going to write until I read your post! ;D
Best, Noah
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I doubt any of the emperors of Rome would sit and discuss anything with the likes of us. However, if I could get a minute with one, I guess it would be Titus. I'd hit him up for a couple box seat tickets to the opening games of the colosseum. ;D
I guess I'd see you there since this was exactly what I was going to write until I read your post! ;D
Best, Noah
My wife isn't into gladiatorial sports, so you can have my other ticket.
Danny
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I'd like to bring a guitar along and jam with Nero... see if the guy was any good or if the Greeks were just kissing up to him.
I wouldn't mind having a few drinks with Aurelian while he's in a good mood on the way to his triumph. Maybe he could have Zenobia in the tent with us as a guest. That'd be an interesting time.
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I doubt any of the emperors of Rome would sit and discuss anything with the likes of us. However, if I could get a minute with one, I guess it would be Titus. I'd hit him up for a couple box seat tickets to the opening games of the colosseum. ;D
I guess I'd see you there since this was exactly what I was going to write until I read your post! ;D
Best, Noah
My wife isn't into gladiatorial sports, so you can have my other ticket.
Danny
Well, Neither is my wife or I, so we could pawn them and check out the city!
Best, Noah
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Ok, I actually thought about this again after reading the posts a second time and have come to a better choice for me personally. I would definitely choose to have lunch with Constantine I. More precisely, I would like to have lunch during his gathering of the Council of Nicea. Constantine called the First Council of Nicaea, composed of 300 religious leaders, in AD 325. Three centuries after Jesus lived, this council was given the task of separating divinely inspired writings from those of questionable origin. So, I definitely would ask him about this and attempt to sit in on some of the meetings. Afterall, their decisions spawned the future of Christian doctrine that exploded across the globe in the next several centuries and is still a major force in the modern world.
Best, Noah
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That would be interesting. Constantine had no theological training that anyone knows about, dictated a vital clause of the creed, then changed his mind and supported the Arians who the Council had condemned.
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That would be interesting. Constantine had no theological training that anyone knows about, dictated a vital clause of the creed, then changed his mind and supported the Arians who the Council had condemned.
That is a very good point.
Best, Noah
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A dinner party...surely it was politics by another name.
Imagine the meeting of the first Trimuverate, Caesar, ( there is only one true Caesar!), Pompey & Crassus with Cicero looking for the way of the wind to blow.
I dispise Brutus.
Doormice anybody, flamingoes tongues,
Udderly nice.
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Nerva for me!
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Imagine the meeting of the first Trimuverate, Caesar, ( there is only one true Caesar!), Pompey & Crassus with Cicero looking for the way of the wind to blow.
I dispise Brutus.
Brutus was trying to save the Republic that his illustrious ancestors had helped to create. They had overthrown the kings some 500 years before and Brutus and the Liberatores were striving to keep Rome from being made into a kingdom once more. The Liberatores were too few and too late and Caesar was too powerful not to be made into a martyr by their actions.
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My sympathies have always been with Brutus and his co-conspirators over Caesar.
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But Brutus was pardoned by the great Caesar only to be "stabbed in the back by him"
He was also rapacious when a govenor, I believe.
The dinner party, well the meat would be carved by Pompey-adolescens carnifax, Crassus would flambae wildly ,burn down your villa to buy it on the cheap, whilst Caesar would write it all down.
Cicero of course, would prosecute Crassus.
Meanwhile Brutus would sharpen knives.
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Severus Alexander, perhaps? Not high profile, I know, but Gabby was a hard act to follow (for someone from the same family), and Sevvy hung on for a surprisingly long reign and did quite a good job, despite his tender age.
Francis
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Definitely Claudius I for me. Being a bit of a language fan myself, I would get him to teach me the basics of a couple of the more obscure languages that he could speak. The next day we would catch the high speed TGV train from Biel down to Lyons and show him what the city of his birth looks like today.
The next time I would invite Augustus (without Livia) but - well, he was so gorgeous I think my ideas for our after dinner entertainment (after I had shown him how to use my electric toothbrush, as he had bad teeth apparently) would be censored here. ;D