FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board

Numismatic and History Discussions => Medieval, Islamic and Crusader Coins => Topic started by: Tanit on October 20, 2006, 02:24:17 pm



Title: Help with islamic coin
Post by: Tanit on October 20, 2006, 02:24:17 pm
Hi
According to the writing, I think that it is an Islamic coin.
Can anybody identify it?
Thanks


Title: Re: Help with islamic coin
Post by: Tanit on November 12, 2006, 01:22:51 pm
 ???


Title: Re: Help with islamic coin
Post by: Nassif on November 19, 2006, 01:47:31 am
Hi;
 I guess not from any Classical or major islamic dynasties from the middle east.
Regards.
nassif


Title: Re: Help with islamic coin
Post by: Tanit on November 19, 2006, 08:49:20 pm
I think that it is an Ottoman coin. I indeed read " Sultan Mahmud " or "Sultan Hassen Ibn Mahmud" . And on the reverse:  Mint  ? and date 1155 AH


Title: Re: Help with islamic coin
Post by: Nassif on November 19, 2006, 11:07:20 pm
Possible ???
nassif


Title: Re: Help with islamic coin
Post by: mernumis on November 22, 2006, 10:58:10 am
It's definettely Ottoman Mahmud I 1143-1167 ah. judging from the date and no data supplied I could say that from the date alone it's burbe copper of Tunis... I only know copper coin minted by Mahmud I in tunis in the year 1155ah. Frank.


Title: Re: Help with islamic coin
Post by: Manzikert on November 22, 2006, 04:12:52 pm
Hi Tanit

What is the weight and diameter please?

I am certain that the style is totally wrong for Tunis at this period, and the legends are too long. I think his would have to be a burbe from Tunis, c.23 mm and 3-5 gm, but that denomination is not listed in the Krause 18th century catalogue.

Also, the illustration for the burben and 2 burben in the Krause 18th century catalogue (KM 43 and 47) shows only three lines of decoration and inscription each side within a line/bead/line triple border.

http://www.osmanliparalari.com/24-1mahmut-1143/24-1mahmut-burbe.htm#burbe
lists 'burbe' and '2 burbe' coins, but they seem to confuse the 'burbe' (=6 burben) with the 'burben'.

My feeling for this piece is more middle eastern or even central asian than north african, but I have to confess I don't yet know where it actually comes from: I will keep on looking :).

Best wishes

Alan





Title: Re: Help with islamic coin
Post by: Manzikert on November 22, 2006, 05:11:04 pm
Hi Tanit, Frank

I will have to eat humble pie and admit it IS from Tunis, but rather earlier: c.1090 H/ 1679-80

The obverse reads Sultan/ Mehmed [circle with dot] bin/ Ibrahim' and the reverse reads 'duribe/ Tu [ornament] nus/ sanat/ fi/ 109[?]

so it is a manghir(?) of Mehmed IV (1058-1099 H/ 1648-1687)

It was the ornament in the centre of the reverse that made me think it might be central asian, but I had forgotten that Tripoli used a very similar ornament later.

Best wishes

Alan


Title: Re: Help with islamic coin
Post by: mernumis on November 22, 2006, 10:46:45 pm
Dear Alan,
Could be right about the date. I gave my oppunion on the date supplied... I am preetty certain that the coin is Ottoman burbe minted in Tunus... Could be Mehmed IV if the date is right. Frank


Title: Re: Help with islamic coin
Post by: Tanit on November 24, 2006, 03:44:23 pm
Thank you very much to you all.
Here are some supplementary inormations: Diameter: 15 mm, Weight: 2.35 grs.
The date is 1098.


Title: Re: Help with islamic coin
Post by: Manzikert on November 25, 2006, 05:46:40 am
Hi Tanit

The date and weight fit well with Mehmed IV: though the date is unlisted on this site:
http://www.osmanliparalari.com/19-4mehmet-1058/19-4mehmet-akce.htm#mangir
the weights and sizes for his manghirs from Tunis (eg 1089 1,92 gm, 13 mm and 2,16 gm 15 mm) fit.

Best wishes

Alan


Title: Re: Help with islamic coin
Post by: Istinpolin on November 29, 2006, 02:41:12 pm
Dear Friends

This is an Ottoman AE Mangir Suleyman II Trablus mint ( Tarabulus Gharb modern Tripoli in Libya)
Date is 1100AH. The reason for the confusion is that the "Ta" is only half on the flan which looks like "Tu".
Süleyman (II) bin Mehmed (IV)

A nice find

Best wishes,
Burak


Title: Re: Help with islamic coin
Post by: Tanit on November 30, 2006, 02:03:12 pm
Thank you Burak
I would like that Alan confirms your identification.


Title: Re: Help with islamic coin
Post by: Manzikert on November 30, 2006, 03:41:03 pm
Hi Tanit

In this case Burak is the specialist and I'm the generalist: he knows a lot more about Ottoman coins than I do, so I wouldn't argue with his identification.

Best wishes

Alan


Title: Re: Help with islamic coin
Post by: Tanit on December 01, 2006, 02:48:41 am
Hi
In that case I prefer the identification of Burak naturally.
Thanks to you all for your invaluable collaboration.

Best regards