FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board

Antiquities Discussion Forums => Other Metal Antiquities => Topic started by: Mayadigger on February 11, 2020, 06:22:51 pm

Title: Belt Mount, Open-work, Hound & Hare Design, c. 2nd Cent.
Post by: Mayadigger on February 11, 2020, 06:22:51 pm
Ave!

Belt Mount, Open-work, Hound & Hare Design, c. 2nd Cent.
Copper alloy; 54mm/17.0gm  Ref/ Appells & Laycock; figure AA8.12 variety

I'd only seen such belt mounts in photos but never actually had one until this example arrived the other day, a muddy mess.
Seen below is after cleaning.

I was all excited, wrote to a fellow collector of such things, sure that it was rare in this condition.
He wrote back, saying that he had TWO! That they were not rare. What?

So my question is: are they rare or not?

Shawn, Quadrans, et. al., if you have any photos of the same in your collections I would be delighted to see them!

Best to all,

Kevin
Title: Re: Belt Mount, Open-work, Hound & Hare Design, c. 2nd Cent.
Post by: Jay GT4 on February 11, 2020, 11:17:28 pm
I have openwork belt plates but not with the hounds.  Beautiful!  I should try and finish a belt again, kinda put it on hold a while back.

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-118989

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-121890
Title: Re: Belt Mount, Open-work, Hound & Hare Design, c. 2nd Cent.
Post by: stultus on February 13, 2020, 02:23:56 am
I know this paper on this topic:

https://www.academia.edu/6101560/Schilling_L%C3%A1szl%C3%B3_-_Bronzener_G%C3%BCrtelbeschlag_mit_Tierfigur_aus_T%C3%A1c_Gorsium

S.
Title: Re: Belt Mount, Open-work, Hound & Hare Design, c. 2nd Cent.
Post by: SC on February 13, 2020, 07:53:50 am
This type is certainly scarcer than the general geometric types, but is by no means super rare.

It would be nice think that each style of belt plate equated with a specific legion, or military profession.  But that does not seem to be the case. 

Every excavation report I have seen shows a wide range of different styles being found despite the location being the base for only one or two military units.

As the article stultus linked to above shows, these are mostly found in the Noricum and Upper Pannonia area (Lauriacum, Ovilava, Vindobona, Carnuntum, Brigetio, Savaria, etc.).  But they have been found all over.  There is one (a belt end) found at Dura-Europos in Syria and some from England.

Decorations like this were most likely made in the canabae - the civilian settlements attached to military camps - by civilian craftsman, including retired soldiers, for sale to active-duty soldiers.  Soldiers would spend their excess pay or booty on things like this.

It is likely that something like the hare-and-hound design started at one shop somewhere.  The products would have then spread slowly through the Empire, at first by soldiers of the near-by legion.  But if it was a desirable style it would have been imitated at other shops.  After all, a good bronze caster can replicate almost anything.

SC
Title: Re: Belt Mount, Open-work, Hound & Hare Design, c. 2nd Cent.
Post by: Mayadigger on February 13, 2020, 06:26:49 pm
Ave!

Thank you, everyone!

 +++

Kevin
Title: Re: Belt Mount, Open-work, Hound & Hare Design, c. 2nd Cent.
Post by: Mayadigger on February 14, 2020, 06:35:06 pm
Ave Shawn,

I know this paper on this topic:

https://www.academia.edu/6101560/Schilling_L%C3%A1szl%C3%B3_-_Bronzener_G%C3%BCrtelbeschlag_mit_Tierfigur_aus_T%C3%A1c_Gorsium

S.


Stultus wrote to me this morning concerning the Hound and Hare plate concerning adding it to his latest Academia paper as noted above.
Excellent paper, BTW!

I mentioned to him that I had sent you this Hound (only) open-work belt plate with hanger loop, as a gift many years ago, but I did not recall the size nor weight.

Do you still have it?

Please let me know!

Best regards,

Your amigo,

Kevin
Title: Re: Belt Mount, Open-work, Hound & Hare Design, c. 2nd Cent.
Post by: SC on February 15, 2020, 09:28:12 am
Of course I still have it.  Need the size and weight?
Title: Re: Belt Mount, Open-work, Hound & Hare Design, c. 2nd Cent.
Post by: Mayadigger on February 15, 2020, 02:04:27 pm
Ave Shawn,

Of course I still have it.  Need the size and weight?


Yes, please! Perhaps a better photo as well?

 +++

Kevin
Title: Re: Belt Mount, Open-work, Hound & Hare Design, c. 2nd Cent.
Post by: stultus on February 16, 2020, 05:05:43 pm
Dear Kevin,

actually I did not write to you.
It was the author of the paper, a friend of mine, whom I had mentioned your mount.

Best,
S.
Title: Re: Belt Mount, Open-work, Hound & Hare Design, c. 2nd Cent.
Post by: Mayadigger on February 17, 2020, 12:13:46 pm
Ave!

My apologies, stultus, I thought you were Laszlo.

Kevin
Title: Re: Belt Mount, Open-work, Hound & Hare Design, c. 2nd Cent.
Post by: SC on February 22, 2020, 10:41:02 am
Don't think my photos are any better.

The item is small: 29mm high, 23 mm wide and 5.5 grams.

SC
Title: Re: Belt Mount, Open-work, Hound & Hare Design, c. 2nd Cent.
Post by: Mayadigger on February 22, 2020, 11:03:06 am
Much better!

Thanks!