FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board
Numismatic and History Discussion Forums => Medieval, Islamic and Crusader Coins Discussion Forum => Topic started by: OldMoney on May 09, 2019, 01:49:22 pm
-
Can you please have a look at the image below, and let me know where it may
be from, and what exactly it may be.
I think I can see a few letters on the side I will call the obverse, which appear to
read S MIC - ARCH (or similar). I expect that this may be intended to mean "Saint
Michael Archangel", although this could be completely wrong - I have no idea.
The other side, reverse if you will, appears to show three people praying, with
what may be a Scottish thistle above. Perhaps this is from Scotland?
It is not ancient, clearly old, but how old? Medieval? 18th cent.? 19th cent.?
I also expect that it may be some sort of religious medal, but I have no expertise
in that area at all, for too modern for what I know or am used to identifying.
Apparently Copper or other base metal; 22mm and 3.15g.
Does anyone recognise this item? Anyone know what it is (or may be)?
Thanks for any assistance given, and/or suggestions offered.
- Walter
-
For the obverse:
Scales and sword are common attributes of archangel Michael, there might also be the dragon below his feet.
Reverse:
Are there flames around the praying people??
-
Thanks shanxi,
For the obverse:
Scales and sword are common attributes of archangel Michael, there might also be the dragon below his feet.
I think you are right, there is a (rather crocodile-looking) dragon there.
Reverse: Are there flames around the praying people??
Looks like it.
- W
-
Does this (above) clarification and additional information assist anyone in
identifying this item any further, or more specifically? Source/Place of issue?
Date? Reference? Perhaps even a possible value? Anything?
Thanks again,
- Walter
-
The reverse is baffling me. I am only guessing but I think that the item could be some sort of religious "protection" medal.
Alex
-
Bump!
Any additional thoughts, ideas, suggestions about this item?
Much appreciated,
- Walter
-
Dear Walter and Board,
Another specimen of this devotional medal, struck with a different variation of the same reverse theme, and from a different obverse die, was posted some years ago on Lamoneta:
https://www.lamoneta.it/topic/135673-identificazione-3-devozionali/ (https://www.lamoneta.it/topic/135673-identificazione-3-devozionali/)
The interpretation of the designs sounds right to me. Hope this helps.
Best regards,
Mark Fox
Michigan
-
Thanks Mark,
That's an extraordinary find of yours. How do you do it!
I had translated (via DeepL) the text proposing identification, as follows:
Devotional medal of suffrage, round, bronze/brass, 18th century -
Obv/ St. Michael the Archangel, with sword and scale (his attributes),
inscription: S. MIC - ARCH.-
Rev/ Souls praying in the flames of purgatory, high radiant clouds.
From the original Italian:
"Medaglia devozionale di sufragio, tonda, bronzo/ottone,del XVIII sec.-
D/ S. Michele Arcangelo, con spada e bilancia (suoi attributi), scritta: S. MIC -
ARCH.- R/ Anime purganti tra le fiamme del purgatorio, in alto nubi raggianti."
One very big step closer thanks to you, Mark.
- Walter
-
Dear Walter & Board,
It is called having a little time and energy on a Sunday and taking a shortcut. I simply used "S MIC - ARCH" as a search string (with the quotes) in my browser.
By the way, did you ever receive the requested copy of my Lucian/Glykon coin article I e-mailed you on April 21? I sent it to the same address that is listed in your Forvm profile.
Hope all is well.
Best regards,
Mark Fox
Michigan
-
Hi Mark,
Thanks again for yours.
It seems I was searching for too much! I did the same search, but with a couple
of additional parameters added (I think it was: scales, sword, and scot or thistle).
Proving that sometimes less is more!
- Walter
(Yes, your email arrived, thanks again - I'll have to ask my email provider why you
did not get my reply).
-
Following on from some leads offered by a colleague (thanks Ron) I found
this item, which indicates that the 'reverse' depicts "souls in purgatory" (!):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/163440136327
It is not the same, but the types depicted are quite close. I have found items
with one side or the other, but not both together on an 'original' early medal.
Some listings suggest that these individual types are copied from an 18th
century French original, but without any reference or notes regarding said
18th century item. Does one exist, or is this mere conjecture?
Finding an original is proving very difficult. This one continues to be a stumper!
- Walter