FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board
Numismatic and History Discussion Forums => Medieval, Islamic and Crusader Coins Discussion Forum => Topic started by: Vladislav D on August 10, 2017, 09:30:29 pm
-
Bought this coin a few years ago and since then it was in the box . So recently I looked at the coin closely and think that attribution is not right ??? I always have trouble with this type of coins :) Please confirm if this attribution is correct :
Kingdom of JERUSALEM . Imitative of Damascus Dirham of Ayyubid al-Salih Isma'il and the Abbasid Caliph al-Mustansir, 1244 - 1250
2.894g, 22.9mm, Acre(?) mint, 1244 - 1250
obverse : Arabic legends: in center: "al-Malik al-Salih / Imad al-Dunya wa'l-Din / Isma'il b. Abi Bakr", in margins: "In the name of God, struck in Damascus year 641 (or another year)" (or similar, blundered, margins mostly off flan)
reverse : Arabic legends: in center: "al- Imam / Al-Mustansir / billah Abu Ja'far / al-Mansur Amir al-Mu'mininin", in margins: "There is no god but God alone; none is associated with him; Muhammad is the Messenger of God" (or similar, blundered, margins mostly off flan).
Bates Crusader type I, Balog 36 - 37 ; CCS 3
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-120863 (https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-120863)
Best Regards,
Vlad.
-
This is not a coin of Crusader imitations. This is the usual dirham Ayyubid al-Salih Ayyub, mint Dimashq.
Ref. Balog #544, SNAT Damaskus #788-790
-
Thank you, Oleg! This is the second time that you helped me with the correct attribution of this type of coin +++
Regards ,
Vlad.
-
The coin is ex Alex Malloy and he identified it as a crusader imitation.
-
Dear Joe Sermarini.
Perhaps you are confusing something, but this coin is not a coin of the Crusaders.
If you can read in Arabic show me where it is written on the coin : "Isma'il b. Abi Bakr".
This is a completely different type of coin.
Here, a similar coin is also sold by imitation of the Crusaders, but this is not so. This is either a vendor error or a commercial reception.
https://www.vcoins.com/en/stores/sphinx_numismatics/151/product/182ff8_crusader_imitation_of_the_ayyubid_alsaleh_ismail_635__637643_ah_1237__12391245_ad_ar_dirham__dimashq_dm_normally_with_hijri_date_but_missing_album_type__8491_i/265250/Default.aspx
In the base of Zeno coins of this type are here https://www.zeno.ru/showgallery.php?cat=4867
-
On the site of Zeno, my nickname is Newcoins and I'm moderator of Ayyubid coins and Crusaders Imitations of the Ayyubid coins.
-
I am not saying you are wrong. I am only saying EXACTLY this... "The coin is ex Alex Malloy and he identified it as a crusader imitation."
-
Description of the coin is incorrect. This is not a type of Malloy Crusaders 3
The last line of the obverse is - Ayub b. Muhammad
Someday everyone can make mistakes.
-
The last line of the obverse is - Ayub b. Muhammad
Someday everyone can make mistakes.
Which is NOT clear to read ( if not impossible ) even for Arabic readers , but you figured the coin out from the first word of second line نجم which is part of the nick name of the ruler نجم الدين Najem al- Din , plus your experience. Good job.
However, Joe is telling you what Malloy said about the coin, not what Joe Sermarini said.
Also , I would not call Malloy ‘s job , a mistake . I would call it an error, the man was trying in language not his first, yet Islamic coins are hard to read specially in Bronze . If you miss one letter , the whole word can be different , I am sure you know that.
Welcome to FORVM , Oleg.